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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
beeruckzII Since: Aug, 2011
#305003: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:59:30 PM

I have some more villains to nominate today.

What is the Work?

The work in question is Paper Mario: The Temple of the Sun, which takes place on an island called Chronoside, where Mario was supposed to go in order to go on a vacation along with Luigi, Peach and Toadsworth. However, things wind up going wrong and now he has to save the day and night cycle.

And I actually have two villains to propose from this story.

Now, the canon Paper Mario series has the Shadow Queen - a demon responsible for the destruction of an entire city in the past, very nearly destroying the entire world in the present, capturing and torturing various people with either her three pet dragons or something like the Riddle Tower - and Dimentio - a demented jester very nearly responsible for the destruction of all worlds and dimensions.

As for the actual story itself, the main threats are King Shroude and his Darkstriders. However, I don't believe that they're heinous enough. And while both of the villains I'm going to be proposing to you today are mostly Arc Villain's and don't quite have the kinds of Earth-shattering type powers that the Shadow Queen and Dimentio have, I believe that they're still heinous enough.

Anyways, here's the first of the two villains, whose name is Diavelli, the ringmaster of Starshine circus.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

Diavelli is introduced as a very smarmy and unpleasant sort of fellow, but aside from that, he appears fairly unremarkable. His circus has all the essentials, which are the performers - who have to sign "life contracts" when they join - and the acts.

However, one such act - a showcasing of incredibly rare animals - is actually a fake act done by a Duplighost named Dulia, who he regularly bullies and abuses, mainly verbally - such as telling her she wouldn't be good at anything except making him money - but sometimes physically, as well. And he also treats the rest of his performers like trash as well.

But what prevents him from being just a typical Jerkass ringmaster is the fact that he's actually in cahoots with the some of the main villain's lackeys, the Darkstriders, who have given him possession of one of the story's MacGuffin's, a Sun Soul.

And he uses this Sun Soul to brainwash and mind-control anyone who he feels is a threat, which is pretty much all of his performers.

He forces Dulia - the rightful owner of said Sun Soul - to transform into a Dynamo Dino and attack Mario and his partners. After they thankfully defeat her and bring her back to her senses, she joins them to confront Diavelli.

When it comes time to fight him, he continues to use the Sun Soul to attempt to kill them and when they eventually overcome him, he proceeds to use the life contracts that Mario and his partners signed when they joined his circus in order to trap them all and render them immobile.

The only reason he loses is because "life contracts don't work on ghosts" and since Dulia is a Duplighost, it has no effect on her and she's able to best him.

So yeah. Overall, he's a nasty piece of work.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

No. He's never given any sort of Freudian Excuse nor are there any Mitigating Factors for him.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

I believe so, yes. His crimes are shown in detail and he doesn't have anything redeemable about his attitude or his actions.

Final Verdict?

[tup] from me.

But then there's the second villain that I'm going to propose now...

What is the Work?

The work is the same as Diavelli's, and so I won't be redundant. All I'm going to say is that this next villain is, quite possibly, even worse than Diavelli is!

And his name is Bulbin.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

When we first meet Bulbin, he's masquerading as the innocent mayor of Viney Valley who appears to be in way over his head as a result of a place called the Poisoned Factory - a place that even the Darkstriders themselves were creeped out by - that's polluting and destroying its surroundings and he doesn't seem to know what to do, as most of his citizens are sick and dying.

However, it's eventually revealed that he was the one who made the factory in the first place and as it's been running for so long, it's begun to pollute and poison Trickleback River, the main source of water for Chronoside.

Sound familiar?

And he only gets worse from there as it's revealed that he'd been forcing Maizee, a Dayzee from Viney Valley whose son got sick as a result of the Poisoned Factory, to go along with his plan to find the Sun Souls and use them to keep the factory powered forever by threatening to kill her son if she were to go against him.

And when it comes time to finally confront him and destroy his work, he keeps up his friendly facade in front of Mario and his partners, and even ingests some poison to give him an edge in the battle against him!

And even when he's defeated and spared by Maizee, he attempts one last attack against her only to go through the floor and fall to his death.

Yep. A real bastard, huh?

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None whatsoever. He's given no sympathetic reason to be causing all of this mayhem other than For the Evulz.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Yes! He's a dick that almost dooms the entirety of Chronoside to become poisoned and sick because of their water and his attitude only makes things worse!

Final Verdict?

[tup] from me. Now, I do believe that both of these villain's count. However, I also believe that Bulbin is worse than Diavelli simply because of how more widespread the consequences of his actions are and because of his Faux Affably Evil tendencies.

But what do you guys think? Do either or both of them count? :)

Edited by beeruckzII on Mar 10th 2022 at 9:59:54 AM

TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#305004: Mar 10th 2022 at 9:08:34 PM

I reserved Destiny 2: The Witch Queen, and the waiting period ran out on Tuesday, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any solid keepers that fit the rules (for now.)

  • Although almost all of the twists in the campaign are of the Not Brainwashed variety with the antagonists, Savathun has an honest goal: to find a way to destroy the true villain of the entire series revealed during the story. Immaru, along with being a Flat Character as the Jerk Jock source of Savathun's powers, additionally flunks the heinous standard — while his actions have doomed countless Guardians to permanent deaths, the same could be said of Dominus Ghaul (already a CM) with more mundane resources.
  • Rhulk has a Freudian Excuse of being oppressed by a military regime and being backstabbed by his parents who became loyalists, although by the time we're introduced to him, he's a cruel meathead that has long outgrown that excuse and has corrupted entire species to produce a body count in the billions out of a Straw Nihilist attitude that he finds joy in; I've seen some comparisons to Braniac since he also uses this path of destruction to collect various curios and decorate his ship. However, he debuted this Saturday, so a proper EP is off-limits until the 19th.
  • The Witness (the true villain mentioned above) is probably more heinous than Rhulk by definition seeing as how they're his master who made him that way and their Evil Virtues are more utilitarian than humanitarian in nature. Despite this, the Long-Runners rule will probably be in effect as their arc technically starts in 2019's Shadowkeep (there's a casual reveal that the ending of that expansion was in fact them talking to the player) and have been set up as a direct antagonist for some future expansion.

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#305005: Mar 10th 2022 at 9:16:40 PM

So remember a while back when someone proposed the Fanfic!Dark Samus from Super RWBY Sisters?

Her character arc is over. She’s dead. And gained no redeeming qualities at all. But...I’m not gonna EP her at the moment. I’m also gonna keep an eye on that version of Dimentio. He’s actually worse here than he was in the game he originated from.

Also, Princess Shroob doesn’t count in this series of Fanfics. It’s made very clear that she cares for her sister in the fic, unlike Partners in Time.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 10th 2022 at 9:22:27 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#305006: Mar 10th 2022 at 9:37:56 PM

[tup] Bulbin, one question on Diavelli before I vote how is his mass brainwashing plot portrayed?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#305007: Mar 10th 2022 at 9:40:20 PM

[tup] Bailiff

[tup]Blodge

[tup]Gillian Loeb

[tup]Richard Wilhelm

Watch me destroying my country
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#305008: Mar 10th 2022 at 9:47:53 PM

[up][up][up] Wasn't that version of Dark Samus approved but her writeup was never made.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#305009: Mar 10th 2022 at 9:50:46 PM

[up] It was, but her arc wasn’t finished at the time. Now it is.

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#305010: Mar 10th 2022 at 9:53:37 PM

As to the Mario fanfic villains for the moment....

no to Diavelli. 'Brainwashing' on its own isn't that bad unless it shown to be horrific and nothing in the proposal makes me thin it is. Bulbin is a maybe. Is the poisoning fatal?

[down] Sorry, typo

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 10th 2022 at 10:28:25 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#305011: Mar 10th 2022 at 10:15:35 PM

[tdown] to Diavelli. Abstain on Bulbin regarding Lighty's question.

[up] Heads up, the Mario fic guys you just upvoted were also Diavelli and Bulbin.

neckinhalf Since: Dec, 2013
#305012: Mar 10th 2022 at 10:17:37 PM

Here's a rough write up for Ted Faro. Maybe Lighty can make this shorter/bounce off of it. I know it's too long as is, but it pretty much covers the whole gamut of Ted across the two games.

In Zero Dawn, we find out that Theodor "Ted" Faro is the cause of almost everything wrong with the Horizon Zero Dawn world. Centuries ago, his robotics company created war machines that could strip biomass for fuel on the battlefield, self-replicate, and hack enemy defenses while being un-hackable themselves. When a glitch made one swarm go rogue, they were unstoppable and would go on to wipe out all life in the world. Before that happened, Elisabet Sobeck got together a group of the brightest minds she could find to create Project Zero Dawn, an advanced AI system (called GAIA) which would send codes to stop the Faro Plague and also terraform the world after the plague stopped. It was bankrolled by Faro, who had someone sneak in a level of clearance (Omega) no one else had. After Elisabet died fighting off some war robots that would have jeopardized the project, Ted went a little crazy and came to the conclusion that the knowledge of the old world was poison and new humanity shouldn't have it. Using his Omega Clearance, he deleted all copies of APOLLO, the part of GAIA that would have educated the new Humanity. He also killed all the other members of the PZD project so they couldn't somehow reverse this. Not only did he destroy the world, he made it so that the new world has little education and is tribal as a result. Forbidden West's revelations make this even worse. It's revealed Ted Faro took a scientist (and his daughter, along with a guru) to his secret bunker in order to create immortality treatments that would allow him to be around for the new humanity. He had plans to "guide" them with his teachings and use his Omega Clearance with GAIA to shape the world as he saw fit. This means his reason for deleting APOLLO was more not wanting the world to know he caused the end of it than "protecting innocents". This experiment ends terribly for him, making him ageless, but also a growing flesh mass unable to move for centuries. While Aloy and her friends face threats that are not Ted's doing in present day, Faro still takes the cake as the worst person in history within this universe.

Edited by neckinhalf on Mar 10th 2022 at 10:18:22 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#305013: Mar 10th 2022 at 10:22:14 PM

[up] Since Lighty proposed him, I am pretty sure that he will make his own writeup.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#305014: Mar 10th 2022 at 10:28:59 PM

I'll take care of the writeup...just leave those to the proposers unless you get permission. I don't want anyone to do work for naught

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#305015: Mar 10th 2022 at 10:42:54 PM

The proposer for Bulbin says that the people affected are sick and dying so it seems it is lethal though I would appreciate some clarification as well.

If the proposal for Dark Samus was approved you can just do a writeup.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 10th 2022 at 10:51:34 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#305016: Mar 10th 2022 at 11:51:43 PM

[tup]Blodge and Baliff.

And no one random crossover doesn't affect heinousness. It's why we don't compare stuff Bones to Sleepy Hollow (yes there are in the same universe lol). Both ben 10 and secret Saturday we're meant to be taken as their own thing and will be taken as their own thing.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#305017: Mar 11th 2022 at 12:41:08 AM

Yes to Blodge and Baliff.

Speaking of Sleepy Hollow, i find these two entries to be really big for villains exclusive to a single season:

Season 3: The Hidden One was a cruel, arrogant, hot-tempered deity, driven by lust for power and a hatred of mankind. Ten thousand years ago, due to his evil nature his fellow gods banished him to the Catacombs, where he seduced Pandora, promising he would make her his wife if she freed him. Giving her a box which could steal a god’s power, he sent her to slaughter his fellow deities, leaving him as the one all-powerful god. However, using a mystical artifact to strip him of his power, the humans imprisoned him in the Catacombs. In the present, Pandora managed to free him, however due to Abbie Mills his power source was lost. Obsessed with restoring himself, his minions summoned monsters from all over world to Sleepy Hollow so he could feed off them, causing many deaths. When The Kindred and Kindress instead fell in love, the furious Hidden One murdered them. Despite initial appearances the Hidden One proved too only care about power, mistreating and berating Pandora. Attempting to kill the witnesses the Hidden One trapped himself in the same spell that originally defeated him, where he learned that acting in good faith Pandora had told the original humans of its existence. Not caring that she saved him for a second time, the Hidden One proceeded to torture his wife. When Jenny Mills tried to stop him from restoring himself, The Hidden One cursed her boyfriend Joe Corbin to become a Wendigo, forcing Jenny to kill Joe. Finally regaining his former powers, the Hidden One imprisoned Pandora then bragged how he would wipe mankind out gradually, so he could bask in their fear and suffering.

Season 4's Big Bad, Malcolm Dreyfuss, was an internet tech billionaire who's obsessed with gaining immortality. Originally a harmless, nerdish man who was forced into a Deal with the Devil, to avoid keeping his end of the deal Dreyfuss sought the most powerful mystical artifact of all, the Philosopher's Stone. His pursuits caused numerous deaths, including Diana Thomas's partner and friend Eric, Dreyfuss's efforts climaxed in him attempting to sacrifice over a hundred thousand people. Gaining his immortality, convinced he was destined for greatness, Dreyfuss sort to conquer America. To accomplish this he raised The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse; spreading a supernatural plague through Washington, causing multiple deaths through spontaneous combustion or having their soul devoured, for his horseman of Pestilence and then releasing a Chinese hunger demon which killed several people through either starvation or cannibalism, to raise his horseman of Famine. His plans succeeding, Malcolm turned Diana into his horseman of War effectively killing her. Dreyfuss then attacked Camp David and used the Four Horsemen to slaughter the entire US army, forcing the government to crown him immortal dictator of America. Malcolm proceeded to ruthlessly suppress all freedoms and execute all dissidents, using the Four Horseman as his personal hit squad. Unable to kill the Witnesses, Malcolm had Crane imprisoned and adopted Diana's daughter Molly, rechristening her Laura; he spent years lying and manipulating Laura, until upon one assault to wipe out the last of the resistance she learned the truth. Realizing that Laura was going to attempt to undo his handy work, Malcolm immediately tried to murder her. Despite his claims and excuses, underneath a seemingly earnest façade Dreyfuss was a callous, ruthless and fundamental selfish man, who proved that sometimes humans can be just as evil as demons.

If i may, can these two entries be shortened to:

Season 3: The Hidden One was a cruel, arrogant, hot-tempered deity, driven by lust for power and a hatred of mankind. Ten thousand years ago, due to his evil nature his fellow gods banished him to the Catacombs, where he seduced Pandora and tried to manipulate into slaughtering his fellow deities using a box which could steal a god's power, only for the humans to use it to instead imprison him in the Catacombs. Awakened in the present by Pandora with his power source was lost, The Hidden One has his minions summon monsters from all over world to Sleepy Hollow so he could feed off them, causing many deaths. Murdering The Kindred and Kindress after they falled in love them, The Hidden One abuses and tortures Pandora and cursed Jenny Mills' boyfriend Joe Corbin to become a Wendigo, forcing Jenny to kill Joe. Finally regaining his former powers, the Hidden One imprisoned Pandora then bragged how he would wipe mankind out gradually, so he could bask in their fear and suffering.

Season 4: Malcolm Dreyfuss, was an internet tech billionaire who's obsessed with gaining immortality. After being forced into a Deal with the Devil, to avoid keeping his end of the deal Dreyfuss sought the Philosopher's Stone, causing numerous deaths, including Diana Thomas's partner Eric, and attempting to sacrifice over a hundred thousand people. Becoming immortal, Dreyfuss decided to conquer America and raised The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse; spreading a supernatural plague through Washington, causing multiple deaths through spontaneous combustion or having their soul devoured, for his horseman of Pestilence and then releasing a Chinese hunger demon which killed several people through either starvation or cannibalism, to raise his horseman of Famine. Turning Diana into his Horseman of War, effectively killing her, Dreyfuss then attacked Camp David and used the Four Horsemen to slaughter the entire US army, forcing the government to crown him immortal dictator of America. Malcolm proceeded to ruthlessly suppress all freedoms and execute all dissidents, using the Four Horseman as his personal hit squad. Unable to kill the Witnesses, Malcolm had Crane imprisoned and adopted Diana's daughter Molly, rechristening her Laura; he spent years lying and manipulating Laura, until upon one assault to wipe out the last of the resistance she learned the truth.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305018: Mar 11th 2022 at 1:39:09 AM

Yes to Blodge and the Bailiff.

Edited by ACW on Mar 11th 2022 at 4:39:16 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#305019: Mar 11th 2022 at 2:17:10 AM

Alright I just took my Pfizer booster and feel a bit off. So I'm taking a bit of a leave from here for a day or two.

Bye for now guys.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#305020: Mar 11th 2022 at 2:40:24 AM

Take care Mir!

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#305021: Mar 11th 2022 at 4:05:59 AM

[tup] Eric, Wilhelm, Loeb, Blodge and Bailiff

Keep Doffy

[tdown] Meteor and Diavelli

Abstain on Bulbin per Lighty's question

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#305022: Mar 11th 2022 at 5:41:54 AM

[tup]Blodge & Bailiff

[tup]The Sleepy Hollow writeups

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305023: Mar 11th 2022 at 6:02:20 AM

If we're doing those Sleepy Hollow potholes, please add the potholes that were there if still appropriate.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#305024: Mar 11th 2022 at 6:21:59 AM

Something I'm concerned about, given that he was approved a couple of days ago, but I brought this up on the MB thread, having just watched the scene on Netflix in Beirut where Rafid attempts to 'kill' Karim, he's clearly not trying to kill Karim, he's trying to kill/capture Mason. Is there an alternate cut that I'm missing? I couldn't find one, but there's a huge difference between trying to kill your brother vs trying to kill/capture your captor, especially cause he hugs his brother in joy before he tries that stunt.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305025: Mar 11th 2022 at 6:26:45 AM

Hmm, okay, even if he doesn't try to kill his brother, he's still bad enough; that said, if he HUGS his brother? That's trickier.


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