During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Albretch, Drednock, Spook, Ganelon, Chang, Doyle, Isaac, Johnny 23, Danik, Robin King image, Shin Clear, Broker, Sealsdramon.
Abstain on Verger and Mercer.
Kira, Jasper, Ryunka, Kraken, Wolnir, Shane.
Cut Wade.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineYes to the Broker and Sealsdramon! But No to Mercer, with it all laid out. Still fine with Lighty's Dead Space, tho!
Alriiiight Scrags and I knocked out another fun one and he graciously let me handle the proposal so let's do iiiit
What's the work?
What if Con Air...but on a train?
That's what we get with Evasive Action. Starring Dorian Harewood as Luke Sinclair, we see Luke as he commits a crime: after his wife and daughter were killed by a burglar and the criminal was let loose on faulty evidence, Luke gunned the man down outside the courthouse, getting Luke locked up for murder.
And now, as he is placed aboard a train transporting inmates and civilians alike, Luke must find a way to blend in with the ruthless convicts when they escape and hijack the train, Luke hoping to work from the inside to find a way to save the dozens of hostage civilians from ruthless criminals and psychopaths that...only speak in movie quotes. Hm. Which I was discussing that guy.
Who is Enzo Marcelli? What has he done?
Played by Roy Scheider of all people, Enzo is the head of a ruthless crime gang serving time for 300 years thanks to his rapsheet. Enzo is introduced when he smugly cuts in line at a prison event. When one of the other prisoners tries to stand up to him, Enzo bullies and insults him...then when the prisoner tries to rough up Enzo for it, Enzo viciously beats his skull to mush with a block of wood.
Later placed aboard the same train as Luke, Enzo leads a breakout of the prisoners by escaping his cuffs using—"'gasp''—the spring inside a toilet paper roll, genius! Killing several of the guards and disguising his crew as them, Enzo takes the dozens of train passengers hostage and demands a helicopter from the cops to escape to Mexico, stopping the train to receive the chopper. Using a little girl—albeit an annoyingly precocious one—as a shield to approach the helicopter with cops all around, Enzo is driven back by the cops who doublecross him to save the hostages.
Enzo flees onto the train with the hostages—one of whom he kills for being mouthy—and puts it in high gear, locking the hostages in a back car and putting a bomb on the door so that if any try to escape, they'll get blown up. So when a POV cop character played by Ray Wise tries to save them, he gets blown up and fried to a crisp, poor guy.
Now, thus far in the flick Enzo is pretty damn generic, buuuuut as Luke tries to work with the hostages and cops to help the former escape and the latter take down the crooks, Enzo decides to change tactics since his "clean getaway" didn't work out: he's going to force all of the passengers into the front of the train, put the train in high speed, and crash it right smack dab into a San Diego train station, knowingly hoping to kill all the passengers and endanger dozens more people at the station so long as it creates enough chaos for him to slip away in the carnage.
Luke luckily saves the hostages and the train crashes with relatively few casualties, meanwhile Enzo kidnaps Luke's Love Interest, train waitress Zoe Clark, and tries to use her as a hostage to escape...when Enzo's old prison warden—revealed to have been in on the hijacking for cash, but under the belief it would be bloodless and non-lethal—confronts and tries to talk him down, Enzo shoots him dead before dueling Luke in a final fistfight, spared only when Zoe declares to Luke "YOU'LL BE NO BETTER THAN HIM!" and Luke leaves the dirtbag to be properly arrested.
Mitigating features?
Nah, he's pragmatic and benevolent enough to his men but there's no actual standards or care to him, he's doing what he needs to in his plan to escape and ultimately sheds zero tears nor upholds any standards or promises he makes for a peaceful outcome.
Heinousness?
For most of the film he's pretty "eh", just killing a few cops and threatening some hostages, including a young child (which, by this point, is just common B-movie fare let's be real), with even his master plan being just "get a chopper and escape", but by the end where he changes tactics to ram a crowded train of dozens into a packed metropolitan station, actively seeking the deaths of dozens to cover his escape? I'd say we're good, here.
Final Verdict?
Smile, you son of a bitch. We got our first Scheider CM.
Edited by Ravok on Feb 24th 2022 at 9:34:56 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I feel the Demon King's entry from The Seven Deadly Sins is a little skimpy
- The Demon King is the tyrannical master of the Demon Clan. Waging the Holy War to kill the Goddess Clan and many mortal races to take control of Britannia, the Demon King grooms his two sons Meliodas and Zeldris to supposedly succeed him. Having them become vicious killers, even attempting to force Zeldris to kill his own lover, the true purpose of becoming his successor is to be his host. Upon the later return of the Ten Commandments, the Demon King has them run rampant through Britannia, devouring souls, before he himself is freed. Possessing Zeldris, the Demon King attempts to also wipe out Britannia and kill all life there before he can be defeated.
- The Demon King is the tyrannical master of the Demon Clan. Waging the Holy War to kill the Goddess Clan and many mortal races to take control of Britannia, the Demon King grooms his two sons Meliodas and Zeldris to supposedly succeed him. He turns them into vicious killers, even attempting to force Zeldris to kill his own lover and her species. To punish his son for being romantically involved with Elizabeth of the Goddess clan, he curses her with resurrection while having Supreme Deity curses him with immortality. Everytime Melidos dies, he goes to purgatory where he reverts back to the ruthless killer he once was. Upon the later return of the Ten Commandments, the Demon King has them run rampant through Britannia, devouring souls and enslaving the population. When Melidos assembles the commandants, the Demon King reveals the true purpose of becoming his successor is to be his host, mocking him for believing he would ever give up his throne. Once expelled from Meliodis, he chooses instead to manipulate Chandler into letting him possess Zeldris, only to casually discard Chandler. The Demon King attempts to also wipe out Britannia and kill all life there, and tries to kill Meliodas after an apparent act of mercy.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Feb 24th 2022 at 11:53:25 AM
For the record the writeup is only slightly long then the Supreme Goddess', 207 vs 182
EDIT: A compromise attempt, down to 183
- The Demon King is the tyrannical master of the Demon Clan. Waging the Holy War to kill the Goddess Clan and many mortal races to take control of Britannia, the Demon King grooms his two sons Meliodas and Zeldris to supposedly succeed him. He turns them into vicious killers, even attempting to force Zeldris to kill his own lover and her species. To punish his son for being romantically involved with Elizabeth of the Goddess clan, he curses her with resurrection while having Supreme Deity curses him with immortality, so he will revert back to the ruthless killer he once was every time he dies. Upon the later return of the Ten Commandments, the Demon King has them run rampant through Britannia, devouring souls and enslaving the population. When Melidos assembles the commandants, the Demon King reveals the true purpose of becoming his successor is to be his host. Once expelled from Meliodis, he chooses instead to manipulate Chandler into letting him possess Zeldris, only to casually discard Chandler. The Demon King attempts to also wipe out Britannia and kill all life there.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Feb 24th 2022 at 12:02:35 PM
"Yes" to Enzo.
I have one last Zatch Bell candidate and possibly the last one unless we missed something:
Who is the candidate? What has he/she done?
Goren of the Stone is a Mamodo who participated in the tournament one thousand years ago. Particularly evil and sadistic, his main claim to infamy involved utilizing petrification to turn his enemies with their spellbooks into stone. By doing so, they were counted as defeated but could never return home, somewhat aware of their surroundings but unable to do anything. Goren would do anything to achieve victory, including using his powers to pretend to have a hostage to cow particularly persistent opponents, such as Pamoon, only to reveal it's a fake before going for the killshot. Goren would later be trounced by Dawuan Bell, the father of Zatch and Zeno Bell (and current King of the Mamodo World) and a coalition of other heoric Mamodo, mirroring what his son would do in the next tournament 1000 years later...
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming or Mitigating Factors?
None.
Heinousness?
Zofis aped the threat of returning his army of ancient mamodo back to stone, but this is the guy who actually did the deed. Over forty "children" rendered in an And I Must Scream state for over one thousand years. Quality over quantity in full effect; think of the Stitch Sisters.
Conclusion?
Yep.
@A New Man: Did you get permission from Satoshi and ACW to change the Volo writeup? The YMMV needs to be Satoshi's writeup. It's almost dwarfing Naraku's now! If it's a single game villain, they should be shorter than if it's someone who spans multiple works/chapters of a Manga.
Yes to Enzo and Goren.
Edited by Klavice on Feb 24th 2022 at 10:33:52 AM
What are you talking about I checked Pokémon Legends: Arceus and the history and the writeup is the same as it has always been.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Feb 24th 2022 at 10:36:20 AM
Going to attempt a proposal here, my first one by the way. Note that I'll only refer to Nero's actions as shown in the series. Anyways, let's get started.
What's the work?
The Trials of Apollo is a book series where the god Apollo gets stripped of his immortality by his father Zeus and must prove his worth before regaining his godhood. He's assigned to Meg McCaffrey, a daughter of Demeter, goddess of the harvest and agriculture, and it turns out that the camp for demigods, Camp Half Blood is more or less cut off from the outside world and there haven't been any new prohecies. The two have to complete quests to free the Oracles, the speakers of the prophecies. And one of the candidates who is hindering their quest? Nero, one of the main antagonists.
Who is Nero? What has he done?
Nero is one of the members of the Triumvirate Holdings, along with Commodus and Caligula, who were infamous for being the three worst Roman emperors. As for Nero himself, he first shows up in one of Apollo's dreams telling him he is Apollo's descendant. Apollo and Meg find him plotting with Python to find the Grove of Dodona, the Oracle associated with Apollo. When Apollo and Meg show up at the Grove, he shows up with his Germani guards, a group of warrior people, and explains how he survived after many centuries and reveals that he kidnapped various campers and a geyser god and threatens to burn them all if Apollo doesn't open the gate to the Grove. When Apollo is ordered by Meg to open the Grove, Nero attempts to burn the captives anyway, showing he had no intention of honoring his deal. When Apollo manages to defeat his bodyguards, Nero escapes by pouring Greek fire on the ground, a highly potent substance, causing dryads, wood spirits, to die off. He then has the Colossus Nerosis, a giant robot, destroy Camp Half Blood so he can use it for his own purposes. And that is where the first book ends.
We meet him again in book five where he has his minions scout every possible location to find our heroes. When Lugulselwa, aka Lu, one of Nero's men returns to him on a strectcher, he has his adopted demigods be ready to burn down New York within 48 hours. When he learns about Lu's treachery, he has Cassius, one of Nero's adopted demigods who is an eight-year-old chop off Lu's hands and imprisons Meg, gaslighting her into thinking she's the reason Lu lost her hands and imprisoning Meg.
He then proceeds to pump his tower with Sassanid gas, a highly poisonous gas, to get Apollo into the throne room before he has Apollo surrender his weapons. Later, when he tries to convince Meg to gas the tower, she refuses. His response? He says he "understands" right before he has dryads attack Apollo and when they initially hesitate, he burns one to get them to attack Apollo. Meg uses her plant-based powers to strenghten the plants and extinguish the flames. He then orders his children, who he brainwashed into killing Apollo and Meg. When Apollo manages to break his fasces, which give him his immortality, he is badly burned and as he begins to fade, warns Apollo and his allies that Python will win.
Any Mitigating Factors? Freudian Excuse?
It's pretty clear that he only cares about himself. He doesn't truly care for his adopted demigods, considering that he has them kill Apollo and also forces one to chop off one of his minion's hands. We don't see him mourn the deaths of Commodus or Caligula, the other members of the Triumvirate. We also don't see any tragic backstory, just a tyrant who chooses to be evil. We also see his actions as Apollo sees them meaning they aren't Offscreen Villainy
Heinous Standard
Now the standards in the Percy Jackson universe are quite high. We have Kronos who ate his children and Gaea who attempted genocide. Both characters are all-powerful deities. While Nero may be just an ordinary human, he is still willing to burn down campers, abuse his own adopted children, and is responsible for many of Kronos and Gaea's actions. In addition, his child abuse is disturbingly similar to real life.
Conclusion
I'd say he gets a yes but I want to know what you guys think.
to Goren and Enzo
From what I heard I believe he supplied Luke and Kronos the stuff they needed to kickstarted their plans in the first place. Though I'm not sure because I haven't read the books, just remembered researching about it.
Sure to Nero by the way.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Feb 24th 2022 at 2:12:11 PM
Zofis does have some cruel Mind Rape so I am not too concerned there.

What do you think?
Sealsdramon
IPP Wick Check created.