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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#302776: Feb 22nd 2022 at 9:14:07 PM

Also something else I am wondering. Since the Star Trek: Prodigy villain is looking like it's going to be approved where are we going to slot that on the page? Should we create a new Western Animation section or slot it in with the Live-Action Shows and change it to a general "TV Shows" folder that covers both Live-Action and Animated?

I am personally leaning towards the latter idea.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#302777: Feb 22nd 2022 at 11:16:38 PM

Yikes. Sorry High. Feel better.

PlatinumOni Since: May, 2021
#302778: Feb 23rd 2022 at 12:48:48 AM

Just had a discussion on discord and honestly… This is controversial.

What’s the work?

Jo Jo’s Bizarre adventure: Diamond Is Unbreakable is the fourth book of the series, which focuses on the life of high school student Josuke Higashikata and his friends, Okuyasu and Koichi, His Nephew and marine biologist Jotaro (and yes Jotaro is Older than him), and his nemesis Manga Artist Rohan, the story goes in two halfs, the first half focusing on Akira Otoishi and his crimes across Morioh Cho and the second half focusing on Catching an unnamed serial killer who have been not caught for 15 years.

Who is He / what did he do

Kira is the main antagonist of the second half of Diamond is Unbreakable and the overall main antagonist of the story, a stand user who has the ability to turn things into bombs. He is an office worker of Kame Yu Department Store, Age 33, despite being considered by others as a normal office worker, He is secretly a serial killer who was uncaught for 15 years, Motivated by Perversion.

During his daily-routine, he had hidden one of his victim;s hand on a brown bag from an bakery, which was accidentally mistaken as his by an student named Shigechi, Kira had confronted Shigechi, but during the confrontation, Shigechi discovers that What’s inside the brown bag was human hand. Which Led to Kira killing him and removing his body through his stand’s power to turn him into a bomb.

When Shigechi’s death was discovered by his friends, Kira decided to kill them all one by one. During an investigation on his jacket conducted by Koichi and Jotaro, he uses his stand to plant a bomb to destroy the evidence and kill both Jotaro and Koichi, which he manages to seriously injure Jotaro before being caught by Koichi.

Instead of attempting to kill Koichi with his bomb, he violently beats him up and toys with him, however, when he discovers that Koichi had discovered his identity and insults him, he brutality beats him to near death, and before attempting to kill Koichi once and for all, Jotaro uses his last strength to make his stand beat Kira up just like how he did to Koichi before blacking out from his injuries. When Josuke came and healed Jotaro and Koichi, Kira decided to run away to hide his identity. He enters a Salon owned by Aya tsuji, who is also a stand user, and forces her to change his face with another man named Kosaku Kawajiri, killing both Aya and Kosaku in the process.

While Living as Kawajiri Kosaku, Josuke’s investigation on Kira Yoshikage was interfered by Kira Yoshihiro, He had the arrow that can create stands and was going to use it to prevent Josuke and his friends from finding out Kira’s Identity. However, Kira’s side of the story was going wrong, he had moved to a family to prevent suspicion, which his new son Hayato had a habit of stalking him after getting suspicions that his father is not his actual father. Eventually, Kira kills again, and he is caught by Hayato. Hayato is also murdered By kira, but the problem was that he needed to hide the evidence and that will also alert his new wife Shinobu.

Right then, Yoshihiro Comes to Kira and gives him a stand arrow, when he is injected by it, a new stand ability called ‘Bite the dust’ is unlocked, which gives him the power to rewind time. He then uses that bomb to destroy the reality where he kills Hayato, and after the time is rewinded, he uses the bomb to annihilate Josuke and his friends. But once Hayato disturbs his plan again, the time is rewinded again and this time he prepares to eliminate Hayato first.

Then his worst mistake, while gloating about his victory, saying ‘I Am Yoshikage Kira’ Josuke and Okuyasu was there, it appears that Hayato also made a gamble to see if he dies first or Josuke and Okuyasu comes first. This meant that he was exposed completely, and he needed to stop the Bites the dust to protect himself by using killer queen, He then also realises that stray cat, a stand that creates Air bomb after Kawijiri family’s cat has died, was in Killer Queen, and he uses the stray cat stand to seriously injure Okuyasu and prepares to kill Josuke, but Okuyasu regains his consciousness after him meeting his deceased older brother in the realm between the living and the dead, and saves josuke from exploding.

Eventually, Josuke defeats Kira, and while Kira is seriously injured, ambulances come to investigate the explosions happening in their area, Kira uses one last attempt to destroy everything in his path and Josuke’s gang by taking a nurse hostage, and succeeds…

Until he realized that he was in the alleyway where Reimi sugimoto, his first victim, was residing, and discovers that he was already dead, during the final confrontation, Jotaro stops time and beats him up to near death, and while he tried to get up, an ambulance had crushed his head and killed him near instantly.

Instead of accepting his death, he discovers where he was, the alleyway where looking at the back will send one to hell, he attempts to force Reimi to turn back, but when Arnold, Reimi’s ghost dog, rips his arm off, he is forced to turn around, the hands of hell comes to rip him apart, and when he asks ‘where am i heading’, Reimi replies ‘a place where you cannot live a quiet life’, and Kira is vanished completely.

Freudian Excuses / Mitigating Factors?

He has NONE. Like, all of his so called freudian excuses and redeeming qualities are NOT REDEEMING QUALITIES and it is COMPLETE MISCONCEPTION.

Is His love of Shinobu genuine? That is not true, Kira CLEARLY States that he is loving Shinobu out of Pragmatic Reasons during his fight with Stray Cat.

Is he someone who ‘wants to live a quiet life’ without any fights? Well he clearly loses that trait as he uses his new stand to Personally Kill Josuke’s gang.

His DEAD MAN QUESTIONS are not taken as canon and are a ‘spin-off’, meaning his redeeming qualities from that storyline are not something we should discuss.

Heinous Standards

Yes, Jojo is a franchise where there is a huge Standard. We can start with Dio, who killed millions for power and control, and not just considering that we also have criminals such as J Geil and Angelo who are both Rapists (With the later being a full scale Pedophile) and Cioccolata also committed a genocide on rome just for his enjoyment. His Boss, Diavolo is an psychopathic gangster who is willing to do anything for him being completely anonymous and continue rule to criminal empire and the rest of italy, then we also have Kenzou who have made a cult just to start a mass suicide.

Kira is pretty insane and actually terrifying compared to Jojo villains, he had murdered and mutilated multiple women by planting a bomb inside them and only keeps their hands just for his perverted obsession, and the most scary part is that he is a freaking child murderer, his obsession with ‘quiet life’ had also caused him to kill a high-school teenager, an elementary school kid the same way he did to the other womans.

Kira is also pretty sadistic compared to other villains of Jo Jo, during the Sheer Heart Attack Arc, When he found that Koich, a teenager, was the one who had disturbed his afternoon, he violently beat him up and toyed with him before attempting to kill him, gloating about how he was going to kill him and laughing about him dying.

Another seriously messed up thing that Kira did was that he have mutilated a man’s face during his escape from Josuke and His friends, and infiltrated the victim’s family, posing as the father of Hayato, and when Hayato Discovers Kira was not his father, killing him mercilessly.

And keep in mind that he has FAR LESS RESOURCES THAN ANY COMPLETE MONSTERS IN THE FRANCHISE AND MANAGES TO HAVE A HIGH BODY COUNT, COMMITTED UNIQUE HEINOUS CRIMES AND SO ON.

Not to mention he still has intentions of killing people and being a Karma Houdini at the same time.

Overall, while not being a mass murderer, he had committed other seriously horrendous crimes such as mutilation, torture and serial Child Murder, Serial Murder, and lacking resources, making him heinous enough.

Final verdict

Yes from me.

Edited by PlatinumOni on Feb 23rd 2022 at 12:50:59 PM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#302780: Feb 23rd 2022 at 1:14:51 AM

I don't think Kira counts. He very plainly cares about Shinobu and it is not just pragmatism he feels towards her, he has genuine mental problems with his whole "I take human hands out on dates and talk to them", and he's frankly just lacking in heinousness in many areas compared to other JoJo baddies. He has a nice bodycount, ok...but he comes from a franchise that has DIO, Funny Valentine, Cioccolata, Diavolo, etc. all waaaay surpassing him in that area, and in just his single Part he's utterly outdone in sheer vile nature by Angelo, a Serial Rapist and killer of women and children who genitally mutilated a child, murdered an old man and tried to use another kid as a human shield.

Kira's been proposed and discussed multiple times before now and the final verdict is often the same. He's an evil dude, but by the standards of JoJo he isn't hitting the marks in lacking redeeming features or shaping up in heinousness. In a franchise where villains force mothers to eat their own babies, serial rapists and torturers abound, and his own part has another serial killer who—while perhaps lacking in as high of bodycount—is worse than him in every other regard? Kira just doesn't measure up, by my count.

I'm also just gonna say that I need a citation on "Dead Man's Questions" not being "canon" and therefore not worth discussion. There's zero indicators afaik that Dead Man's Questions isn't perfectly in line with the canon, and we cannot just ignore it simply because its existence basically shoots any last arguments for Kira counting as a CM in the foot by showcasing that Kira without a pathological impulse to murder is actually a far more chill, helpful dude to innocents around him.

Edited by Ravok on Feb 23rd 2022 at 1:32:49 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#302781: Feb 23rd 2022 at 1:31:17 AM

I found one potential.

What's the work?

King's Beard is an animated film from 2001. The barber, Rufus, goes to the Mirrored Kingdom to work there but to his shock, he finds out that nobody wants to cut their beard. The reason for this is because Jasper, King Cuthbert's younger brother, has cursed his older brother's beard to grow to gigantic proportions all across the city and now the subjects are sympathetic to their king and don't want to cut their beards either.

Who's the candidate? What has he done?

Jasper is the selfish younger twin of King Cuthbert. During their childhoods he always took advantage of his older twin. At one point, he complained that it was unfair for his brother to become King just because he is older and Cutbert agreed and offered Jasper to rule together as a team but Jasper refused and demanded to have the crown and the throne all for himself. When Cutbert refused, Jasper cursed his beard to grow and spread across the city, condemning his brother to a Fate Worse Than Death where he would be stuck on his throne until Jasper returns and takes what is rightfully his.

He goes under the ground and builds a kingdom which mirrors his brother's with the only subjects being bats who serve as his henchmen. His plan is to steal a fairy's wand to use to power up an engine to spin the two kingdoms, so that his would end up above the ground while his brother's will end up underground (needless to say, this means that all his brother's subjects would fall and die in the abyss below).

To that end, he steals the wand of Sophie's mother (who is one of the main protagonists) but she dies as a result because fairies who lose their wands for too long wither and die and Jasper was unable to use it.

Then, one of his henchmen steals the wand of her daughter, Sophie, and brings it to him but Jasper is angry because he hasn't kidnapped the fairy herself. When they kidnap Sophie herself, Rufus goes and takes the wand but Jasper tricks him into thinking his on his side before ordering his bats to apprehend him and threatens his to ensure that Sophie would show him how to tranfer her power to his body, not caring that the process causes her a lot of pain and she too would eventually die as a result.

When the two of them escape, Jasper proceed with his plan to use Sophie's wand to spin the kingdoms, not caring about his brother's subjects. When the heroes come to stop him, Jasper takes the wand of Sophie's father and adds it to the machine which causes a lot of pain to him and he is dying as a result.

Jasper grows wings and turns into a demonic creature because of the magic he has consumed and then he flies to the surface, takes his brother's crown and proceeds to gloat at him as the kingdom is getting destroyed.

But Rufus shows up and throws a magic ball at his beard which causes it to grow large and get tangled in the underground. Jasper gets stuck and condemned to the same fate he condemned his brother to, it gets tangled to the machine which causes it to stop and return the kingdoms back to normal and at the end of the film, King Cuthbert's beard is gone and his subjects now all want to be shaved.

Heinous standard

He is the most heinous character in the film. He attempts to spin the kingdoms which would kill all his brother's subjects, kills Sophie's mother by stealing her wand and attempts to do the same to Sophie hersel and also condemns his brother to a horrible fate by growing his beard to enourmous sizes and getting him stuck to the throne.

Mitigating factors

His "excuse" is really pathetic. He was jealous that his brother was king by virtue of being older... but his brother actually offered him to rule the kingdom as a team and Jasper was angry because he wanted to rule everything alone. Plus, the flashback scene includes Jasper saying that his brother always gives while he always takes and there is no reason to change that dynamic in their relationship. Also, in the present Cuthbert begs Jasper to just take his life not to destroy his kingdom but Jasper doesn't listen and says that Cuthbert is his kingdom and he is destroying things he cannot have.

The film does contain plenty of comedic moments but Jasper himself is played seriously. The only slightly comedic moment involving him is when Rufus storms into his castle and says "Hi" and then Jasper responds with another "Hi" because he was distracted at the moment but other than that I can't think of any other moments where he is played for laughs.

There is no indication he cares for his henchmen either.

Conclusion

I would say he is a keeper.

Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
#302782: Feb 23rd 2022 at 1:35:17 AM

[tdown] to Kira. Even disregarding his mitigating qualities, he flunks the heinous standard of the series.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#302783: Feb 23rd 2022 at 2:07:06 AM

[tup]Albrecht and Drednok.

[tdown]Kira. (The dude is way too nuts). I also want a citation for low resources here considering his stand is one of the most powerful in the series. But he's clearly way outdone by guys like J Geil or Angelo.

Edit: Okay so I have watched kings beard once way back in the day. And Jasper is played seriously. I just do not remember any indication his scheme would actually kill anyone. I know he killed Sophie's mother but that's it. Could I get a citation of mass death here?

Edited by miraculous on Feb 23rd 2022 at 2:10:10 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#302784: Feb 23rd 2022 at 2:07:48 AM

Yes to Gigatron, Albrecht, Drednok.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#302785: Feb 23rd 2022 at 2:38:56 AM

[tup] Abedayo, Reed, Sheng, Eddie, DAM, Gigatron, Albrecht and Drednok

[tdown] Kira

Holding off on Jasper per mir's question

Unsure on Ryunka

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#302786: Feb 23rd 2022 at 2:53:13 AM

@miraculous

You actually bring up good points I hadn't thought about. Jasper doesn't explicitly say his plan would kill the people. However, when his brother learns about his plan he shouts at him "You are destroying EVERYTHING!" and then Jasper retorts "No, only things I can't have." and then his brother begs "Then take my life! Not my kingdom!"

In short, his brother outright says that he is destroying the entire kingdom.

Also, I feel this plan relies a lot less on Fridge Horror than for example, PAM's plan to launch all humans in space where they would starve to death. If the upper kingdom spins around and starts pointing downwards, it's pretty obvious that everyone would fall in the abyss below to their death.

Here is the film if anyone wants to check it out.

I am not very familliar with how our rules for Fridge Horror work but if you feel there is not enough indication everyone would die, then feel free to downvote him.

Edited by WatTambor on Feb 23rd 2022 at 1:53:43 PM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#302787: Feb 23rd 2022 at 2:55:42 AM

Nay to Kira, for several reasons pointed out by Ravok. On top of that, the low resources arguments doesn't hold up imo when Gray Fly, with a much weaker Stand, manages to get a bodycount in the triple digits.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#302788: Feb 23rd 2022 at 4:14:35 AM

[tdown] Kira

Going to probably support him being added to NA list since he’s come up multiple times in the past

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#302789: Feb 23rd 2022 at 4:19:44 AM

Holding off on Jasper.

I cannot in good conscience endorse Kira as a candidate at all, given the retorts against him.

I also support an NA entry.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:20:05 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#302790: Feb 23rd 2022 at 4:34:29 AM

[tdown] to Kira and Jasper. (We don't allow fridge horror, and "destroy everything" is too much Never Say "Die" for me)

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#302791: Feb 23rd 2022 at 4:41:19 AM

No to Kira and Jasper.

Does anyone else having opinions on Drednok?

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#302792: Feb 23rd 2022 at 4:44:17 AM

[tdown] Jasper, similar issues as with G-Man aside, dosen’t really seem to be more evil than your average kids fantasy villain

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#302793: Feb 23rd 2022 at 4:52:33 AM

[tup] Gigatron, Albrecht and Drednok. [tdown] Kira and Jasper. Abstain on Ryunka.
Sorry to hear that, Highfalutin. Hope things turn out well.

TotemGenitor Bye Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bye
#302794: Feb 23rd 2022 at 5:00:06 AM

[tup] Drednok

[tdown] Kira (I agree with him being in the NA), Jasper.

Abstain on Ryunka

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#302795: Feb 23rd 2022 at 5:22:54 AM

[tup] Gigatron, Albrecht and Drednok. [tdown] Kira and Jasper. Abstain on Ryunka.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#302797: Feb 23rd 2022 at 5:49:26 AM

[tdown] to Jasper and Kira

I Also agree on Kira being on the Never List since he’s been posted here a number of times

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 23rd 2022 at 9:46:23 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#302798: Feb 23rd 2022 at 6:10:11 AM

No to Kira. Just gonna abstain on Jasper.

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#302799: Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:09:10 AM

No to Jasper and Kira. If you want to be civil, refrain from using EXCESSIVE EMPHASIS in your EPs.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Feb 23rd 2022 at 10:09:31 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#302800: Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:22:28 AM

[tdown]Kira & Jasper (too much fridge)


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