During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Here's my write up. It turns out the number of people killed in the event she celebrated was higher than I thought. Also, I had her first name wrong, Evelyn is a relative of hers who is a more sympathetic character. Finally, her system doesn't have billions of inhabitants whose lives she risked, I misread the number. Sorry on all three counts. I don't think any of them keep her from qualifying, but if they do, I understand and apologize again.
- To End in Fire: Karolin Adebayo is the administrator of Galton, a Mesan Alignment star system focused on research and development. She unflinchingly perpetuates a system of slavery based on principals that she doesn't really believe in for appearances sake. When she hears that her superiors have launchd terrorist attack with a bodycount of 43 million, Adebayo celebrates while even the perpetrators are ashamed (although only out of Pragmatic Villainy) afterward. When Honor Galton and inflicts a Curb-Stomp Battle, Adebayo is furious about being defeated, but seemingly agrees to surrender to save the lives of her surviving soldiers, while Honor makes it clear that any breach of the truce will be violated. However, as soon as her enemies have lowered their guard, Adebayo violates the truce and launches missiles hidden amidst all of the system's civilian settlements, even though she knows Manticore's defensive weaponry will keep this act from achieving any strategic meaning. Adebayo knows that Honor is likely to relate by wiping out the areas those missiles will come from (although ultimately, she doesn't), but doesn't care. Her last act is risking retaliatory strike that will kill millions of people she's sworn to protect just so that she can kill a few thousand Manticorian sailors under a flag of truce to placate her own ego.
very curious about this one upon reinvestigating:
Work
Birdy the Mighty Decode
The Ryunka
the Ryunka is a parasitic alien lifeform responsible for the destruction of several planets before being detained and sealed away by the Federation. A group of alien terrorists desiring to rebel against the Federation steal the Ryunka and flee to Earth. There, through connections with the enigmatic terrorist Christella Revi, they hand it to Satyajit Shyamalan to figure out reawakening it.
Point of Interest
now, Satyajit Shyamalan is currently the sole monster representative of Decode', where the Ryunka is brought up as something like an object he plans to exploit. But that's clearly not the case when it's consistently shown the Ryunka is very much sentient, has motivations, and agency in talking of its own independence and trying to feebly escape from Birdy when it's finally cornered. All the instances it talks to Tsutomu through Demonic Possession of Sayaka is also its real personality than something produced out of synchronization.
What has the Ryunka done independently of Shyamalan?
Besides the off-screen multi-planet annihilation, through possessing Sayaka, the Ryunka goes out at night and murders swathes of innocent people on-screen, including an entire town. Furthermore, most notably, it should be noted despite Shyamalan empowering the Ryunka to give it the capacity to do so, the actions it takes in subsequently killing millions of people are entirely of its own volition, including killing Shyamalan. It is by no means incidental due to some uncontrolled power, it literally gives this speech:
"I finally took over. At first, the girl within this body resisted, and I wasn't able to take control. But then Shyamalan weakened her, and she wasn't able to resist anymore. When I no longer needed his assistance, I killed him. Those who summon me always die by my hands. Why would these seemingly intelligent lifeforms wish death upon others? I find them all painfully foolish. So I destroyed them one by one, eating away at the arrogance in their spirits. I have one desire. To bring peace and quiet to this chaotic universe... because I long for silence."
It also shows an exceedingly sadistic side, manipulating the protagonist Tsutomu over his feelings for Sayaka and taunting him that he can die with the entire planet it will soon raze.
Heinousness
Of this continuity, considering the estimated billion death count if we include the backstory, no one even comes close. It's just the sentience of it I realized now, it is very clearly not a mere weapon.
Mitigating Factors
The quote does lend some ambiguity to the Ryunka (in that it is inflicting karma upon people than any moral agency), which is why I even bring this up, but considering the sadistic side it shows to Tsutomu when it prepares to destroy Earth, I'm reserved on this.
Conclusion
I know there are more Decode fans around these parts than the manga, so if you want to still chime in, it would be interesting.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Feb 22nd 2022 at 7:02:57 AM
Yes to Albrecht.
Anyway here is the Dreknok EP:
What is the work?
Star Trek Priodgy is an attempt by Nickelodeon to make a show similar to Star Wars Clone Wars
Who is Drednok? What has he done?
Drednok is the robot assistant to a warlord named the Diviner, who helps his master run a slave colony on an asteroid called Tars Lemora. Mercs from across the sector bring anyone they can capture to be slaves on Tars Lemora. In the pilot, the Diviner is in a healing pod, so he has Drednok run the colony, the colony is extremely harsh with the possibility of death due to accidents is very high. Drednok also has no problem abusing children, a Kazon brings a literally Caitian child to be a slave at half price, which horrifies the Diviner's daughter/clone Gwyn, Drednok is fine with it. There is a rock creature slave called Rok-Tahk, who turns out to be an 8-year-old girl. This is the Caitian child:
Drednok is also using a Medusan named Zero (Medusans are energy creatures who have no gender and people are driven mad if they see one with the naked eye) to mentally torture any slave who is too disobedient and turns them into mindless drones, much to Zero's horror. Zero escapes and Diviner wants him to be recaptured. Zero makes contact with another slave Dal and tells him what the Diviner is looking for, a Federation Starship buried in Tars Lemora. Dal makes an alliance with Rok-Tahk, Zero, and another slave named Jankom Pog after they find the Starship Protostar, to get it working and escape Tars Lemora. Drednok recaptures Dal and while Gwyn wants to show him mercy, Dreknok has other ideas, Dal will be sent to work on the surface of the asteroid, a place where no slave has returned from alive. However, the others manage to get the Protostar working and save Dal. Dal also takes Gwyn prisoner and Drednok attacks Dal, taking sadistic delight at the thought of killing him. Dal and the crew escape with Gwyn and the Protostar.
Diviner wants the Protostar because it's the key to his plan to destroy the Federation, with Diviner and Drednok chasing the crew across the sector. However, the crew discovers that the Protostar has a protostar drive that allows them to warp to another part of the galaxy. They seem to be out of the Diviner's grasp, but they meet Dal's adopted mother, a slimy Ferengi named Nandi, who sells them out and tells Diviner of their location for a price. Diviner is able to use that to send a copy of Drednok's body to the Protostar to recapture it. Drednok mocks Gwyn, saying she is the greatest mistake the Diviner made, Gwyn destroys the Dreknok body (with Gwyn having to choose to switch sides), with only the head remaining. Diviner has a message in Drednok's head, saying he will kill the remaining slaves if they do not.
They bring the Protostar back. Diviner, of course, breaks his word, demanding Gwyn back, and when he gets Gwyn and the Protostar, has Dreknok shoot out Tars Lemora life support system so that everyone will die on that asteroid. But the crew removed the protostar drive from the Protostar, with Diviner and Dreknok having to double back to get the protostar drive. Drednok also knows that the Diviner plans to use the Protostar to introduce a computer virus into the Federation's computer system so that the Federation's ships destory each other, so he is also aiding a mass murder scheme.
Drednok beams down to attack the crew and recover the protostar drive, but a mass of former slaves attack him, with the Caitian child ripping his head off.
Is he heinous of the standard of the work?
This may be a kid's show, but it's still Star Trek, Dreknok is a slaver, child abuser, sadistic mind rapist, and attempted to aid mass murder. Sure slavery is not unheard of in the Trek verse, major Empires like the Romulans and Cardassians had slaves, but Diviner and Drednok are just criminals rather than running a giant empire and between the mind rape and the child slaves, this is pretty vile.
Diviner is pretty nasty but has redeeming qualities, Daimon Nandi, Dal's adopted mother is pretty vile too, she secretly sold Dal into slavery and stole a diamond from an alien planet which put the locals in a state of constant pain, but she is not dead or defeated yet.
Any Freudian Excuse or any redeeming qualities?
Diviner wants to destroy the Federation to save his planet from civil war and has a soft spot for Gwyn, but Drednok has no redeeming qualities. He may be Diviner's robot servant, but I do not think he lacks agency, he may be loyal to the Diviner' but expresses annoyance at Divner at times and thinks Diviner's love of Gwyn makes him weak and expresses this to Diviner, he is not just a mindless robot and he his loyalty to Diviner is not played for sympathy. Diviner refers to him as an advisor. He is more of a robotic Psycho for Hire than anything else.
Final Verdict?
First animated Star Trek keep.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 22nd 2022 at 6:31:50 AM
I think the problem is a lot of the movie villains are just copies of Khan the most iconic villain of the films, revenge obsessed maniacs who none the less have some redeeming qualities, the only possible exception is Shinzon, who may be a CM due to bad writing, but that is a big if.
Some Star Trek movies don't even have villains, the Borg Queen has a bizarre moral outlook and guys like Kruge and Chang have redeeming qualities and Kruge is not even close to the heinous standard. There are far more Magnificent Bastards in the films than monsters.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 22nd 2022 at 6:44:09 AM
Albrecht and Drednok
Not sure on Ryunok
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 22nd 2022 at 11:03:46 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffInfamous Chinese Emperors: Fu Sheng was an Emperor of the Former Qin Dynasty. After losing his right eye as a child, he blinded three of his servants with arrows so that they would share the same look as him. Upon ascending to the throne, he held a banquet, where he asked his officials for their opinion of him and personally executed them regardless of their answer. When the other officials plead with him to show mercy in their reports, Fu Sheng holds another banquet where he brings out his chief of court affairs Shen Pei, skins off his face and forces him to dance, and subsequently executes his uncle when he speaks out. When his cousin advises him to attend to court affairs, Fu Sheng feigns understanding and persuades him to stay the night, while he secretly plots to kill him for embarrassing him.
Think we can slot it under comic books, or manhua.
Sidebar: my dad and grandmother came down with COVID. I think they might have passed it down on me too.

Giga and Al
It's Spooky Month!