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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#302576: Feb 21st 2022 at 1:25:14 PM

I've been a bit busy and the quote cleaning process has mostly fallen on me so just gimme some time and I'll try to do further cut suggestions today.

In the meantime though on the subject of quotes, I proposed these once and only got a vote or two, what do we think about these for the quote page?

"I’ll rape her, Friend decided. I’ll show her it’s still my party! I’ll show her right fucking now!...It was still his party, and it was too late for turning back, and he would rape her and crush her skull when she was eighty years old and her fingers were worked to the bones. But not today. Not today."
The Man with the Scarlet Eye/"Friend, Swan Song
"The man who liked movies laughed as if he were watching a comedy. In the sound of that laughter was the shriek of napalm bombs, incendiary rockets and Tomahawk missiles; it echoed through the theater, and if other people had been sitting there each one would have squirmed with the memory of a private terror. He’d been waiting a long time for the curtain to rise, had worn many skins and many faces, and the moment was soon, very soon. He’d watched the lurch toward destruction through many eyes, had smelled fire and smoke and blood in the air like intoxicating perfumes...He was a creature of patience, but now he could hardly keep himself from dancing. Maybe a little Watusi up the aisle would be in order...His only concern was that it wouldn’t be finished yet, not even with all the lightning soon to strike. There might still be pockets of humanity left, and small towns struggling to survive in the dark like rats in a collapsed basement. He understood very well that the firestorms, the whirlwinds of radiation and black rain would destroy most of them, and the ones that remained would wish they were dead a thousand times over. And in the end, he would Watusi on their graves, too."
The Man with the Scarlet Eye/"Friend, Swan Song

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#302577: Feb 21st 2022 at 1:32:59 PM

I'm fine with the quotes.

hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#302578: Feb 21st 2022 at 1:35:07 PM

I would put Littlefinger above other entries since he is one of Big Bad Ensemble of whole show.

Also i think Ramsay should be moved above Gregor and Craster.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#302579: Feb 21st 2022 at 1:46:14 PM

Yeah, I'd agree with Littlefinger, Joffrey and Ramsay—in that order—going before Walder, The Mountain, Craster and Tanner (or whatever order those four are in right now).

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#302580: Feb 21st 2022 at 1:47:31 PM

Order right now is Joffrey, The Mountain, Craster, Ramsay, Walder, and Karl.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#302581: Feb 21st 2022 at 2:03:23 PM

For what it's worth, the MB page that just went up settled for order of appearance. Do we want to do that here for consistency?

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#302582: Feb 21st 2022 at 2:04:26 PM

Order of appearance sounds best tbh. With how many characters their and their shifting roles.

How did these guys appear in what order ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#302583: Feb 21st 2022 at 2:36:59 PM

I asked Ravok, and he said Littlefinger first, but honestly, I'm fine with whatever.

STAR, feel free to tinker with the Buffyverse page, but while there please point out where Silas goes.

EDIT: By order of appearance:

  • Joffrey: 1.1
  • Petyr: 1.3
  • Gregor: 1.4
  • Walder: 1.9
  • Craster: 2.1
  • Ramsay: 3.2
  • Karl: 3.3

Now, based on importance and such, I'm thinking the order should be as follows:

  • Petyr (appears early on, important throughout)
  • Joffrey
  • Gregor
  • Craster
  • Karl (appears an episode after Ramsay, but isn't he connected with Craster?)
  • Ramsay
  • Walder (appears early, but the Red Wedding is episode 3-9)

Edited by ACW on Feb 21st 2022 at 5:55:29 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#302584: Feb 21st 2022 at 2:57:53 PM

Got the order of appearances: Joffrey, Littlefinger, Gregor, Walder, Craster, Ramsay, Karl.

[up][nja]ed.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 21st 2022 at 2:58:29 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#302585: Feb 21st 2022 at 2:58:30 PM

[up][up] I put a placeholder for Silas right under Drusilla - in a Buffy tree under the Boom! Studios Universe section.

Really all I did was tweak the titles of the sections, so now the three !! points are marked "Main Universe", Boom! Studios Universe" (with the blue link but I'm lazy right now) and "Others".

Personally for GoT I say just go order of appearance. Tanner's connected to Craster but his role is easily the most minimal, and Joffrey and Baelish are both iconic enough that I don't see the point in switching them around. Same with Walder - the Red Wedding may be late, but it's a very iconic television moment now, so shoving him to the bottom doesn't make much sense to me.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 21st 2022 at 6:00:15 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#302586: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:06:12 PM

Like I said, that's just my thoughts, but I don't feel strongly enough to fall on my sword for it.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#302587: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:14:15 PM

Order of appearance is my vote.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#302588: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:19:04 PM

Appearance works.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#302589: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:24:09 PM

Order of appearance worked perfectly with Oz, same opinion as Star, Sky and Ordeaux.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 21st 2022 at 3:41:33 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#302590: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:25:24 PM

Alright, so appearance it is.

EDIT: And thanks to whoever did it already smile

What about the books?

Edited by ACW on Feb 21st 2022 at 6:26:40 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#302591: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:25:45 PM

EDIT: Nevermind

Edited by WatTambor on Feb 21st 2022 at 2:26:07 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#302592: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:30:21 PM

Digging Star's suggestion for appearance order.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#302593: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:34:14 PM

According to the wiki the books are already in order.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#302595: Feb 21st 2022 at 3:58:04 PM

[tup] to Melvin and the Malefic quote.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#302596: Feb 21st 2022 at 4:07:17 PM

I'm still busy here IRL, but I'll lay this guy on the table so we're not waiting too long on him.

What has Teemo the Hutt done?

Teemo first appears in the RPG's Beginner Guide, in the adventure "Escape from Mos Shuuta", but he doesn't do much there—it's the subsequent full-length adventure "Long Arm of the Hutt" we want to talk about.

A junior Hutt in the service of Jabba, Teemo is unusually ambitious, stiffing Jabba on payments, spying on him, and harboring secret plans of reverse-engineering himself a battle droid army. Teemo allied up with the Geonosians with hopes of exploiting them for their technology; when relations soured, in a fit of pique, Teemo kidnapped the Geonosian dignitary's intermediary, subjected him to a round of Cold-Blooded Torture, forced him to fight in a gladiator arena for his own amusement until he was worn down, then finally had him butchered by his second-in-command. Not an isolated instance, either. Teemo regularly forces his captives to fight to the death for his own amusement, spending gladiators "fairly quickly"; this is a possible fate that can befall the player characters.

Teemo also hires out a group of thugs to terrorize a group of Twi'lek villagers off their land so he can get at the ryll mind beneath it (ryll being a Fantastic Drug); it starts off at petty arson, but the threats quickly escalate to outright violence and torture if the heroes aren't quick enough to manage to threat. He's got a Twi'lek prisoner aboard one of his ships who was maimed and branded for trying to speak up.

The biggest thing that lands him this post, though, is the Wookie-skinning business. Aboard the same ship they can find the Twi'lek prisoner, the heroes can find a stack of Wookie pelts. Teemo sells Wookie pelts all across the galaxy to depraved clientele for profit, skinning Wookies and selling their fur by the half-dozen on the regular. For all this, the player can either kill him or lock him up to face Jabba's wrath.

Any mitigating factors?

So, while the other crimes are definitely nice flourishing, it's typical Huttese behavior. It's the Wookie-butchering business that solves the dilemma of heinousness for me. Like I said, even for a Hutt, that's such a distinctly gross crime, and it sticks out a bit more for me since Teemo is a nobody among the Hutts; a Big Bad Wannabe with wannabe dreams of usurping Jabba. In those standards, he sticks out in cruelty.

Conclusion?

I'm gonna say keep. Weaker than Ravok's other three, but still.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#302597: Feb 21st 2022 at 4:10:11 PM

[tup]Teemo

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020

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