During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
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What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Littlefinger, I recall looking at old talks awhile ago with it saying how he didn't know how bad the War would be and others made it worse, and I was never sure on that given from everything I've read and looked up everyone knew how bad a war would be, which is why they knew what Joffrey did was Monumentally stupid.
Any chance The show version of Mad King could be worth another Look? there was a series Tie in that went into the backstory with the Mad king and goes into his personality, and even shows some of his crimes(We see him having a dude burned alive), and it even had a series based Framing Device, with the narrator being Robert explaining the Origin of his Rebellion(https://youtu.be/112P76EJUzk)
Edited by Snoketrope on Feb 15th 2022 at 2:12:53 AM
Bow to the PrototypeYes to show Littlefinger.
As for the books, I assumed he would never keep there as his love for Catelyn is pretty unambiguous, with Martin even go as far as to say his version of Petyr would never sell Sansa to Ramsay.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.There might be a couple fanfic Littlefingers I might look into; one work is completed, the other is not (even though Littlefinger is long-dead by this point in the story, long-dead as in died over 100 chapters before).
Edited by k410ren on Feb 15th 2022 at 5:23:54 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsYes to Littlefinger - not gonna lie, I found previous discussions on him and didn't really agree with the prior consensus, but I could tell he was talked to death and didn't want to reignite any flames.
Now, onto my third Missing and the last one for tonight - tomorrow will have a brief intermission for Buffy and then we'll be right back on the road. I decided to push back my last niche villain for later down the line until we cover the murderers I'm confident on, so with the two human traffickers out of the way, let's move on to our first killer.
Who is Landon Warfield? What does he do?
Landon is a powerful Arms Dealer from the episode "Deep Cover". In the past, Landon operated out of Phoenix being helped by a woman named Alex Taylor. In reality, Alex was actually Nicole Scott, an undercover who now works with Jess at the FBI. The police were eventually able to bring down his group without compromising Nicole's identity, but they, unfortunately, couldn't get Landon himself and he escaped. In the present day, he's working on not just consolidating his power - he wants revenge on everyone who helped put him away.
To do this, he kidnaps the niece of the man who led the investigation into him, telling him to create a passport in her name for an assassin he's bringing into the country. The man does so, and the assassin begins targeting the loved ones of people who helped put his crew away. From one of the arresting officers to the foreman of the jury, no one is safe, and Landon's doing this knowing that the survivors will spend the rest of their lives blaming themselves for their loved one's deaths - it's noted that the list of people who helped put him away in any capacity is upwards of 50, all of whom have friends and loved ones he could target.
To target this, Nicole takes her old identity and goes back undercover with him. It's revealed that the two had gotten intimate in the past as part of her cover, so he trusts her a bit more than he should - up until one of his guys manages to pierce the hole in her story enough to blow her cover. Pretty much immediately, he shifts gears - after decrying her as a lying bitch, he decides to pull his routine on her. Through her undercover phone, she gets the number of Jess, her best friend, and tells her to move Jess up to the top of her target list. In the meantime, since the man whose niece he kidnapped is talking to the feds, he has no reason to keep her alive, so he takes Nicole into her room to execute her in front of her.
Luckily, Nicole manages to stop him in time and force him to leave, and Jess gets a vision warning her of the impending attack that allows the FBI to arrest the assassin. Landon then makes the dumb mistake of going back to the cabin offscreen, allowing the FBI to arrest him as well and end his threat for good.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
Landon was originally in my "maybe" pile for one main reason - his relationship with Nicole. Antonio, Nicole's previous handler, says that Landon fell for her during their time together and I will say there's nothing disproving that - Landon's pretty happy to see her, mentions that she wasn't ever able to say "I love you" in their last meeting in a way that makes it pretty clear he wishes she would, and while he does kinda disrespect her initial wish to keep things professional, he doesn't go all in with her until she does it first to protect her cover (he caught her snooping and needed a reason, so she says she was looking out for him and kisses him first). He ain't saying "I love you", but there's care there for sure.
Thing is, as soon as he finds out she's an agent, all of that goes right out the window in less than a minute. There's not even a real sense of betrayal coming from him - like, he calls her a lying bitch after she calls him a monster, but that's pretty much it, other than that it's just him being angry at the fact that he got duped (twice no less) and deciding to have Nicole's loved one killed out of spite. There's no grand "but I loved you" or "was it all real", it's just "you lied to me, so now I'm going to make you suffer in every way I possibly can". If we got a real sense of betrayal from him then I'd be more concerned, but as it is, it's pretty clear that any feelings he had for her evaporate pretty much instantly as soon as he learns she's an agent. I think he clears this hurdle on a rewatch after talking with some people.
Is he heinous enough?
He's got the highest number of potential kills in the series. He's on a way higher tier than my other potentials (being a super-powerful Arms Dealer compared to the average independent killer or Psycho for Hire), but it's projected that the number of people he's targeting could be as high as 50, and for each one he's targeting them specifically to make someone else suffer for trying to defeat him before. Landon is especially cruel for the series and his reach is insane, so even if he only actually gets to three kills in the episode (disregarding a few attempted kills), his intentions are grand and he can meet them. Easy yes.
Final verdict?
Once more, I think a yes - what do you think?
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 15th 2022 at 5:25:28 AM
Yes to Landon. Revenge by Proxy does it.
Ordeaux, you wanna start the Nasu page?
Beryl's writeup probably should be trimmed. Well over 300 words.
Ravok/43: Where should Falk go on the Heroes page?
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...I still have horrifying memories of Sakura Matou in the worm pit. Not sure if it's a good image or not however.
Yeah, I knew that was probably never going to be a good idea for the "rape worm pit" image.
Ok, working on trimming Beryl's entry. What should I trim?
Eh, good enough.

Yeah all of the GOT keepers appear much throughout the series.