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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#301726: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:46:27 PM

[tup] King Vortigern

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#301728: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:48:02 PM

[tup] to Vortigern

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#301729: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:50:55 PM

[tup] to Vortigern.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Feb 15th 2022 at 12:51:33 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#301730: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:51:23 PM

Yes to Vortigern and Ordeaux... you've told me the logic I vote with is bad before, you have a tendency to drag out debates when the votes don't align with your own. I'm sure you mean well but we have to play this out at least once a week and it's getting rather tiresome.

Bruhmpex Space Chameleon from Where do you think? Since: Jan, 2020 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Space Chameleon
#301731: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:53:06 PM

Vortigern seems like a good [tup] to me

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#301732: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:55:26 PM

[tup] Vortigern

So... the Disney Animated Canon. Worth ever bringing up again or safe to say has been picked dry? Only asking because I recently rewatched one and didn't remember the villain having such a high bodycount.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301733: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:56:20 PM

[tup] Vortigern.

I don't really have much interest in continuing anymore it seems that I have lost.

There is one thing this is making me wonder who is Sephiroph from Final Fantasy VII Machinabridged able to count as that is a TFS Abdriged series full of jokes and a comedic setting.

[up] Who is it?

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Feb 15th 2022 at 12:56:37 PM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#301734: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:56:41 PM

Namedrop it. If it's the hat from Meet the Robinsons, don't bother.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 15th 2022 at 1:57:37 PM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#301735: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:01:18 PM

@Ordeux

We had a thorough talk there. We aren't going to start a discussion on any comedic series with enough dramatic or serious moments to be Conductive here.

My thoughts with this is basically that this was a good faith Proposal and I do think the Proposer made some good counterarguments that Deserve acknowledgment, but the idea people are somehow voting wrong or going against Precedents should stop

[tup] to Vortigern

Bow to the Prototype
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#301736: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:05:56 PM

[tup] King Vortigern

[tup] Quino Salazar.

[tup]Legion

[tup] Beryl Gut.

Watch me destroying my country
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#301737: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:06:02 PM

@ Scraggle, Maybe it's Oogie-Boogie, I think we all agree that's worth another look!

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301740: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:07:02 PM

A Nightmare Before Christmas is not from the Animated Canon.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301742: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:09:45 PM

Wait also Oogie Boogie, I was under the impression he was determined to not be bad enough multiple times. Did something change that I am unaware of?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#301743: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:09:49 PM

Thanks, I've been up at night unsure of where it should be placed.

Shh... let the joke fly.

Edited by 43110 on Feb 15th 2022 at 9:10:07 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#301744: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:10:01 PM

someone makes very obvious joke

someone else takes it literally to debate canonicity

God I love this thread [lol] Eager yes to Vortigern!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301745: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:11:05 PM

I honestly did not know it was a joke. I now feel quite stupid, tbf it is sometimes hard to tell on the internet.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Feb 15th 2022 at 1:11:42 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#301746: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:11:40 PM

Ngl I actually thought he was serious too [lol]

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#301747: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:13:03 PM

So... Hades from Hercules. Specifically with the monsters he sics on Hercules, Thebes, and Greece as a whole. His whole plan revolves around unleashing the Titans to lay waste to Olympus and the world, which he knows they'll do. On top of the elemental Titans crushing various houses and towns on their way to Olympus, the Cyclops' attack on Thebes, all orchestrated by Hades just to get back at Hercules, renders massive casualties. Cyclops straight-up throws a building of people at a crowd of people, and none get out. Hades himself has no issue torturing his minions, doesn't bat an eye when his Hydra dies, and fireballs the souls of the dead he keeps trapped in the underworld when they so much as annoy him. Yeah he has his comedic moments, but I don't think any of them were really mitigating, and are about as Laughably Evil as say, Bill Cipher.

That being said, I wanted to ask because I'm sure the Disney Animated Canon has been picked over to death, especially the Renaissance films. I just couldn't find any point where he was discussed because frankly we've discussed so many villains named "Hades" that my search didn't narrow anything down.

[down][down] Is that so much "honoring the deal" so much as "the terms of the spell were broken so the spell goes away"?

Edited by SumDumNerd on Feb 15th 2022 at 2:19:19 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#301748: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:13:31 PM

Yes to Vortigern.

Clown-Face, mind doing your writeup?

Which should go first?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301749: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:13:37 PM

Hades can't count he honors his deal with Hercules even if you want to ignore all the other problems.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#301750: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:14:20 PM

Also reading everything I'm going to officially say no to Legion and leave it there.


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