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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#301327: Feb 13th 2022 at 1:17:40 PM

Possible quotes for Ninja Gaiden?

    Quote 1 
Jaquio: Ryu, you deserve praise for making it this far...

Ryu turns around.

Ryu: Where are you, show yourself!

Jaquio: ...but even you cannot defeat "the masked devil."

Cut to shot of masked man.

Cut to Ryu.

Ryu: No one can beat me.

Jaquio: Even...your father?

Stunned look crosses Ryu's face.

Ryu: What?!

Cut to black-and-white flashback of opening duel.

Jaquio: Your father was not killed. He has been turned into "the masked devil."

Cut to Ryu.

Ryu: No!

Jaquio: It will be entertaining to watch father and son fight to the death.

Cut to Ryu facing left.

Ryu: Wake up, Father!

Cut to Masked Devil.

Jaquio: No use. He thinks only of killing you.

Or:

Clancy: ...Listen carefully, Ryu. I want to protect the earth from humans. Humans are weak and disgusting little creatures who love to fight. You know they should be wiped out, don't you? Ryu, join me! I'll even let you bring a perfect human to ride the ship with us. Once the earth is cleansed of humans we can start a new world!

Ryu: No reason can ever excuse the destruction and slaughter of mankind. [close-up, angry] The only thing that's going to get destroyed is you and this dimensional warship!

We can maybe trim that second one so he doesn't sound like a WIE.

Edited by ACW on Feb 13th 2022 at 4:18:18 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#301328: Feb 13th 2022 at 1:43:27 PM

  • Maloker is an Old One responsible for all of the horrors that vampires have wrought over millennia. As humans became strong enough to force him off of Earth, Maloker sired the first vampire in the hopes of creating an army, only to fail. Woken up by Simone Doffler in the present day, Maloker massacres and eats the Magic Council members attempting to stop him, later on beginning a rampage in San Francisco when awoken in Dracula's body. Seeking nothing less than the total destruction of humanity, Maloker's evil even surpasses his fellow Old Ones.
  • "Uprowadzone" ("Kidnapped"): Łukasz Skowron, nicknamed "Młody" ("Young"), is a pimp who runs a prostitution ring. Through Aldona Michalczyk, young women are recruited under the promise that they will be able to work abroad. Instead, they are forced into prostitution and rounded up and sold into slavery. Any woman who defies Młody is executed. Any time police track the women, they are killed. Młody also kills his business partner and his bodyguard and completely takes over the operation. When caught, Młody attempts to shoot the police officers before being injured.
  • Toki Tollivar is "the Corellian Strangler", a former Sith adept who has become a sadistic murderer. Using his meager Force sensitivity to painfully Force Choke several innocents to death, Toki manipulates his loyal droid Kayo into cleaning up his messes. Toki flees aboard a crowded luxury yacht when the authorities close in on his killing spree, only for his bloodlust to drive him to massacre the entire ship by strangling every last passenger to death. When Zayn Carrick and his friends find the dozens of dead innocents, Toki reveals he lured Zayn in specifically to kill him and his entire crew in the hopes of continuing his spree across the galaxy, Toki planning to "finish the Republic one citizen at a time".
  • Chuundar, brother of Zaalbar and son of Freyyr, is a twisted sociopath who eschews the normal honor and nobility of the Wookiees of Kashyyyk. Framing his brother to exile him and trying to murder his father, Chuundar proceeds to allow the Czerka Corp. to sell his own people into slavery and death. Secretly bargaining with them for weapons, Chuundar is gleeful to sell his own people into slavery as long as he benefits.
  • Demon's Souls: The Old Monk was the husband of Latria's Queen before getting banished for his depravities. Finding the Golden Robes and learning that they contain wicked magic, the Old Monk uses his newfound powers to overthrow the Queen, before imprisoning her, along with her family and subjects, to the tower's dungeons, having his Mind Flayers condemn them to torture and experimentation, resulting in agonizing suffering and death. The Old Monk would also craft a demonic doll containing the Queen's likeness to lure in his prisoners before having his gargoyles carry them to his tower where he extracts the souls from their bodies, before twisting them into becoming grotesque demons to add to his monstrous army.

Edited by ACW on Feb 13th 2022 at 4:43:42 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#301329: Feb 13th 2022 at 1:45:40 PM

Yes to Reitman and a yeah for Falk as we discussed. His misguided campaign results in deaths he knew were a possibility but pushed for on the chance his insane quest could secure personal glory and he’s such a petulant, vile child with the assassination attempts and Earth Cult allegiance after being kicked out of the military he goes well beyond just incompetence.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301330: Feb 13th 2022 at 1:48:43 PM

I would say go with the second quote. The first one is far too long to use.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#301331: Feb 13th 2022 at 1:51:55 PM

Here's the Area 7 tree for Reilly:

  • USAF Lieutenant General Charles Samson Russell, call-sign "Caesar", is secretly the head of the elite 7th Squadron at the secret base Area 7—which also contains the Sinovirus, a Chinese bioweapon, as well as its vaccine. Caesar is also a top member of the secret racist Air Force society the Brotherhood. Putting into motion a plan he had been working on for 15 years, when the US President visits Area 7, Caesar activates a transmitter attached to the President's heart. If the President's heart stops, or if he fails to match his palm print to the nuclear football every 90 minutes, over a dozen bombs located in the airports of a dozen US cities will go off. Willing to give the President a "final chance", Caesar has 50 7th Squadron members face off against the President's Secret Service detail, which, unbeknownst to Caesar, also includes Shane Schofield, call-sign "Scarecrow", and several of his Marines. Eventually, the President explains Caesar's plot: The cities that would be destroyed would all be Northern cities, as "Caesar wants an America without the North". Then, Caesar could use the Sinovirus to rid America of its "human waste products"—how he refers to the Black population. Finally, even when the Sinovirus is no longer an issue, Caesar still had a transmitter attached to his own heart, and is planning to die, which would set off the bombs.
  • Gunther Botha is a South African scientist with deep ties to white supremacist groups. Having worked in an Apartheid era unit to figure out a virus that only targeted Black people across the world, Botha was recruited by the US to figure out a cure for the Sinovirus. Experimenting on living subjects with viruses and helping to create the artificial human Kevin, Botha refines the virus to target Blacks and betrays the US to deliver it to a white supremacist terrorist group to enact his racist ends.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#301332: Feb 13th 2022 at 1:52:17 PM

Honestly, I dunno about Falk. Hate Sink for sure, but too much of what he does (at first) isn't entirely intentional on his part.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301333: Feb 13th 2022 at 1:57:27 PM

Also, I don't think we need to shorten the second quote. Ryu calling him out is a pretty clear way of showing he isn't a WIE.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#301334: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:03:20 PM

I know Heroes quite well and I’m supporting Ravok on this one.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#301335: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:19:43 PM

Yes to Falk, Sleet and Reitman.

I think I got a one, Jaquio has a long monologue about evil and demons in the second game:

Jaquio: The Sword of Choas Simply sucks up your lifeforce and when the sword awakens, the Gate of Darkness will be thrown open and the demons shall come back to life.

Ryu: What are you going to do with Irene?

Jaquio: Her lifeforce shall be used to call up the demons. You will awaken them, she will call them back to Earth. You should be proud, you two shall make the beginning of a new age, the age of eternal darkness! Ha, ha, ha!

Edited by Overlord on Feb 13th 2022 at 4:50:57 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#301336: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:26:35 PM

Dig the quote, Overlord!

Now then, for our latest DCAU candidate, I went back and forth on this one but ultimately with thanks to Scrags for a chat, I'm going for him!

Who is Chronos? What has he done?

Appearing in the Justice League Unlimited two-parter "The Once and Future Thing", David Clinton is a sad little man with a big invention: contrary to what all of his peers, colleagues, and even wife Enid believed, David has invented a time travel device, and is currently using it to travel through time and steal rare and valuable antiques for a "collection".

Using this collection and time machine to show off to Enid, David is instead ridiculed by his wife for not using the technology for actually useful stuff, and in response, David tries to steal Batman's utility belt from the Justice League Watchtower. After a serious of unfortunate events in which himself, Batman, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman get thrown back in time to the Old West, David helps the heroes recover his time travel device from outlaws...only to then turn on them, proclaiming that the outlaws' violent ways have inspired him to finally alter time is a "meaningful" way.

The result? David—dubbing himself "Lord Chronos"—changes time and creates a future where he has killed off the entire Justice League and its hundreds of members, leaving only a small handful of heroes left alive. Conquering Gotham in his name and empowering a group of criminals called the Jokerz to run rampant on citizens, Chronos enslaves Enid to his will by trapping her mother in a....thing that does something horrible to her, Enid subserviently trying to appeal to Chronos's every whim in the hopes he will let her mother out since "it's cruel to keep her in there for so long."

Now, knowing that Batman, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman aren't far behind in pursuing him to the future, Chronos dispatched the Jokerz to kill them when they arrive, but Batman "Beyond" and the other few remaining heroes swoop in and drive the Jokerz away. Chronos, terrorizing the Jokerz with the knowledge that he is aware that one of them sold information to the new heroes to help them save the others, reveals the traitor to be the clown Chucko. Chronos proceeds to dish out one of the egregious examples of There Is No Kill Like Overkill to Chucko as punishment: opening a time portal, Chronos flings Chucko back in time to prehistoric times right as the event that wiped out the dinosaurs takes place, ditching Chucko to die in the fiery heat death of the dinos.

Chronos: "Do you know what killed the dinosaurs?"
Jokerz: "Uh...no, sir?"
Chronos: "Well Chucko does. And unless you want to find out firsthand, you'll go finish off the Justice League."

Soon enough, our heroes wind up finding Chronos and dueling his minions, cornering him as Chronos's alterations to time begin tearing the fabric of time and space apart. When the heroes point out that his actions are literally destroying the universe as the sky begins to fade? Chronos simply remarks "Hmm. Pretty.", before concocting one last scheme: to travel back to the beginning of time and reset everything to a universe where he reigns supreme as a god.

Snarking to his terrified wife that "You'll love me next time!", Chronos begins his plan but is ultimately followed by Batman and Green Lantern, who take Chronos down and decide to ensure he never threatens time again in a fate particularly cruel for Chronos: sticking him in a seconds-long time loop of the exact moment his wife delivered her original verbal beatdown of him that prompted him to steal from the Justice League, a split second flash at the end of every loop showcasing that Chronos has realized his godawful fate before the loop resets.

Mitigating features?

In terms of actual excuse or redeeming features? No, none at all. Chronos was a weird little man who committed time theft until his wife—who Chronos claims he just wants to love him—belittled him, and in response he becomes a time-altering dictator lmao kind of overblown. And as for said wife? Nothing there, Chronos whines that he just wants her love and indeed, when he's about to wipe out all time and remake it he proclaims that she'll "love me next time" (implying after he's reset everything), but Chronos's idea of "love" is shown to be toting her around as arm candy, demanding she give him neck rubs and affection him while he snarls threats at her, and trapping her mother in something that is And I Must Scream in nature. Underneath the milquetoast "wah my wife is overbearing" he's an abusive ass.

Now, where I hesitated on Chronos for a time was because he's...not really the most dignified of villains. His "villain origin" is that his wife yells at him, he spends his first episode getting treated as a Butt-Monkey in the Old West until he regains his time travel tech, and even after he's become a tyrannical dictator, there's a scene where the Justice League ambushes him while he's sleeping...and he's curled in the fetal position sucking his thumb. Hell, even his final fate is being trapped in a time loop of his wife shitting on him. [lol]

Nonetheless, Chronos...is definitely played serious enough, I'd say. The League are all horrified by what he's done to the future, Batman even breaks into shouting when he realizes Chronos is going to "Reset everything, make himself into a god!", and as scenes like the one where he fuckin murders Chucko with the dinosaur genocide are played completely, deadly serious. He's rammed home as nothing but a loser with power and gets scenes to establish that, but he's also a totally serious threat.

Heinousness?

Even for the DCAU, Chronos is shooting high. Killing off the entire League, turning the future into a dystopia where crime reigns supreme, doing something bad to Enid's mother, killing Chucko in such a way...all are bad, but then you throw in that he quite literally tries to wipe out all of time to remake it in his image? Chronos is, no exaggerations, one of the worst in the DCAU in sheer scope.

Final Verdict?

Him being a petulant little creep at the end of the day who has some humor attributed to him ultimately doesn't do much to impact how horrid he is. I'm a Yes.

Edited by Ravok on Feb 13th 2022 at 2:58:09 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#301337: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:34:18 PM

[tup]Chronos

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#301338: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:34:47 PM

[tup] Old Monk and his Robes, Cobblepot, Fah Lo, Sleet, Falk, Reitman

[up][up][up] I say I like that quote the best

Chronos, I give a tentative [tup] , since he does seem to be massive Butt-Monkey most of the time, but is treated serious enough when it counts

Edited by Agentofchaos on Feb 13th 2022 at 5:35:05 AM

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#301339: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:37:16 PM

I like Overlord's quote the most [tup].

I am unsure on Chronos that Butt-Monkey stuff is really hard to ignore and we have rejected quite a lot of villains that are comedic too much even if their crimes are played seriously.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#301340: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:39:57 PM

It's really no different than something, say, the Joker himself goes through in the DCAU. Joker gets plenty of humiliating moments, and while we certainly can allow more with him since his whole schtick is "psycho Monster Clown", the DCAU has well established that even when its villains have silly moments, the dangerous ones are played as serious threats, and I fully believe that applies in this case. Chronos is just a Psychopathic Manchild loser, and he gets moment to exemplify that while none of the heroes ever regard him as less of a threat.

Edited by Ravok on Feb 13th 2022 at 2:40:41 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#301341: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:43:46 PM

Sure to Chronos (couldn't he...just use his time machine to kill JLA and avoid having to fight them?).

Though we all know what killed the dinosaurs:

Edited by ACW on Feb 13th 2022 at 5:45:34 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#301343: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:47:16 PM

Very enthusiastic yes to Chronos! Love DCAU and Justice League Unlimited and that arc is one of my favorite arcs ever! Again, yes to Chronos!

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#301344: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:47:53 PM

@ACW: I'm sure there's a totally logical time travel explanation for why that isn't an option, but damn if it don't just come down to "they're the heroes of the episode". Also damn, missed a perfectly good DC dinosaur extinction joke [lol]

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#301345: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:49:16 PM

Sure to Chronos

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#301348: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:57:22 PM

[tup] Carvalho, Loki, Mancewicz, Skowron Old Monk, Fah Lo, Sleet, Falk, Reitman and Chronos

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#301349: Feb 13th 2022 at 2:58:27 PM

Yes to Chronos. What do you think of the Jaquio quote I found ACW?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#301350: Feb 13th 2022 at 3:00:33 PM

I like the quote. Definitely better than the 2 I had.

Now all we need is Dagra Dai (and maybe an image), and the page can be locked.


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