During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Also, this guy? Overlooked a long time.
What's the work?
The Lone Ranger is...not exactly one of Disney's best remembered films. Form 2013, the film had some major controversy over casting the very Caucasian Johnny Depp as Native American sidekick Tonto, while the hero is John Reid, last of the Texas Rangers, who uncovers a sinister plot to steal a host of silver....now, the Dragon of the film is already up. I mean, there's a brutal cannibal here. But enough about film star Armie Hammer, Butch Cavendish is already listed.
But now...I give you one Latham Cole.
Who is Latham Cole?
The Big Bad of the film, played by Tom Wilkinson. Cole is a Railroad tycoon and visionary who represents the evil of manifest destiny...well, at least a very sanitized version. In truth, Cole and Butch Cavendish, he vicious outlaw and cannibal are brothers. Cole sets up Butch to be rescued and arranges for the massacre of the Rangers at Butch's hands.
Now, John is the survivor, saved by Tonyo who considers him a "Spirit Walker." Years ago, Butch and Cole stumbled upon silver deposits in the water and were met by a little Comanche boy. They bribed him with a silver watch to lead him to their village and massacred it, with only the boy as the survivor. Years later, Cole means to get the silver. Tonto, driven a bit insane by this, considers the two mean "Wendigo"....despite the fact that "Wendigo" is not a Comanche thing but Algonquin....
I digress. Cole has Butch and his men raid settlements, massacring people disguised as the Comanche so he can wipe the Comanche out. Taking John's sister in law and nephew hostage, he kills one man who tries to help them and reveals he intends to marry Rebecca and keep young Danny as a "legacy" since Cole can no longer have children of his own.
John brings in Butch and Cole reveals Butch is his brother, freeing Butch and also turning the army captain Fuller to his side by revealing the truth and saying if Fuller killed the Comanche for nothing...better keep with Cole than face the consequences.
....this is a very, very different US government, apparently. So, the Comanche attack and Cole has them exterminated, but our white saviors are ready and in the final battle, the film decides to follow horrific genocide with funny, triumphant slapstick, ending as John kills Butch and Tonto faces Cole. John saves Tonto who leaves Cole to head for a collapsing bridge...
Cole is left to plummet down below into the waters, with rocks of silver pushing him down, drowning him in what he most craved.
Mitigating issues?
I genuinely have no idea how we missed Cole so long. Yes, Butch is a vicious cannibal and a mass murderer. But the plan for genocide? Cole's. The idea for mass murder? Cole. He is clearly the smarter of the two and Butch fully obeys him. Captain Fuller is still in on it, but he at least seems to be somewhat disturbed by what he's done and is driven by cowardice. Cole is a genocidal dick who's just out for himself.
Okay, remember how I said Cole is Butch's older brother? Well...this isn't mitigaing. He hates Butch. He says, in complete, disgruntled irritation, you can't pick your family and Butch has absolutely zero self control or vision. When John brings Butch back, Cole actually pummels him to the point they need to pull him off Butch, and this doesn't really seem to be acting. They're business partners, as Cole needs Butch to get his hands dirty, but there is clearly zero affection between them.
conclusion?
Easy yes.
Cole. Probably gonna have to get rid of this on the film's page.
- Well-Intentioned Extremist: Latham Cole seems to genuinely believe he's doing the right thing with his actions.
Latham Cole: I was at Gettysburg. Twelve thousand casualties before lunch. You know what I learned in all that carnage? Nothing is accomplished without sacrifice.
You know, from my vague memories of the movie (I only saw a bit of it at a party I was attending), I assumed he disliked Butch out of Even Evil Has Standards. Apparently I was mistaken.
to Cole.
to the Ozai video too, while I'm at it.
Sure to Cole (and the less I need to think about Hammer, the better).
Yes to the Red Death. A surprise to be sure, but I lean towards their inclusion. I missed the Grimmel reevaluation, but a very late yes there as well. Funny to think I was so against him back then, but the video game stuff makes him an easy keep.
Yes to... the rapey Clock King —-now to be fair, I think DC has moved away from trying to make silly lower tier villains "serious" by making them rapists... but there was definitely a dark time when this was relatively common. Heck, this even happened with the Joker in the Brian Azzerello book and he's probably the most famous supervillain ever!
Yes to Klaw as well. Maybe one day Multiverse shenanigans will allow Serkis to reprise the role. Maybe one day...
Having just finished watching The Kagestar series, I can finally propose a villain from it I've been eyeing for a while now.
What is the work?
The Kagestar was a Toku series by Toei about a more western-comics inspired superhero.
The plot follows Kageo Sugata, an ordinary salaryman at the Kazamura Konzern. After an event where he and his boss's daughter Suzuko were kidnapped by a low-rent costumed villain but escaped, the two fell on a power grid. Instead of killing them however, the electricity from the power grid granted them both the power to trade places with their shadows and become the "Kagestar" and "Bellestar". With their new powers, Kageo and Suzuko decide to use them to (what else?) fight crime and defend the city from the various costumed criminals that are apparently running around it.
About a third of the way through, The Kagestar underwent a bit of a Retool that involved trading out the previous formula of one-shot villains and introducing a proper overarching Big Bad for them to fight? Who is this villain you ask? Well that would be...
Who is the villain?
Nazi scientist-turned-criminal mastermind Doctor Satan. Having apparently decided to try his own hand at conquering the world after the end of World War II, Doctor Satan founded a Shocker-expy criminal syndicate known as the Satan Empire, whose members have the incredibly... creative chant of "Heil Satan!" Unfortunately for Doctor Satan, he happens to put his plans in motion at just the same time as the Kagestar and Bellestar were battling crime, leading to a fight between the superhero duo and Doctor Satan's various animal-themed monsters.
What does he do?
Doctor Satan does quite a lot to live up to the edginess of his name. Some of his worst acts include:
- Episode 14: Doctor Satan sends the mantis-themed Kamakira to hunt down humans and spray them with his gas, converting them into "human puppets" that he dresses as various historical figures and puts up for display in his his "doll museum" at an amusement park.
- Episode 15: Sends the crayfish-themed Zariganian to hypnotize children into joining the "Junior Satan Corps" and becoming Child Soldiers for the Satan Empire. He even goes out of his way to target children who are friends with Kageo and Suzuko so they'll be forced to fight them.
- Episode 16: Kidnaps the son of a scientist and brainwashes and forcibly remodels him into the centipede-themed Mukaderiya. He then tasks his newly created monster with turning all of Tokyo's water to sand in order to sink the global economy and bring civilization to the brink of collapse.
- Episode 17: Sends the fly-themed Haedobura to spread a gas across Japan that causes those hit by it to become blinded and feel intense pain. The people that Haedobura sprays even include a group of children.
- Episode 18: Sends his Arijigoku (Antlion) Monster to kidnap people and enslave them to dig a tunnel underneath Tokyo, in order to create a giant sinkhole to collapse the city into.
- Episode 19: Sends the coral-themed Sangoras to use spray freezing powder on people to turn them into fossils, as a test for his plan to sprinkle the powder from the sky and use it to wipe out Tokyo's population before moving on to other cities.
- Episode 32: Sends the pitcher plant-themed Kazuragon to kidnap children so their blood can be fed to a man-eating sapling to help it grow.
- Episode 33: Sends the parrot-themed Oumurada to hypnotize doctors into injecting their patients with a disease that will cause them go berserk and bite others, creating a pseudo-Zombie Apocalypse.
Heinous Standard?
He's the main villain so he definitely sets it. Especially considering that before he appeared, most of the villains were One Shot Characters who committed mostly petty crimes like stealing and... stealing mostly. Once Doctor Satan appears, the Evil Plan for each episode becomes significantly wider in scope, and more destructive.
Mitigating Factors?
Nope. He's a Nazi scientist. His name is Doctor Satan. There's no ambiguity here. He's pure evil.
Final Verdict
Easy
. Also if approved he'd be another Gorō Naya CM, for those who like to keep track.
He meets his end in a fairly standard Final Battle in the last episode of the series. Since he didn't do anything particularly heinous in that episode I didn't feel it was worth mentioning in the EP.
Finally,
Cole. Even with Butch's presence in the movie, I was wondering about Cole's status for a while because Butch is the one taking orders from him, and we finally got our answer. Reminds me of a certain CM qualifier from elsewhere.
Oh, and
to Doctor Satan.

ACW, put this at the very bottom of Magic: The Gathering since the character only appeared in 2021.
Strixhaven: School of Mages: Extus Narr was once a renowned warlock of Strixhaven whose great power was surpassed only by his monstrous ego. Passed over to be named the Oracle of Arcavios, he decided such an insult could only be repaid by destroying both the academy and the whole plane with it. Usurping control of the outcast mages of the Oriq, Extus used them and their soul sucking Mage Hunters to lead a devastating assault on Strixhaven to massacre the innocent students and faculty. In truth, the attack was a diversion to allow him and his closest followers to initiate a summoning ritual in the heart of the academy. Sacrificing all his loyal agents in the process, Extus summoned a terrifying force of destruction known as the Blood Avatar to ignite an endless age of chaos and ruin to Arcavios all in petty vengeance for his bruised ego.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.