During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
My next..and this is a surprise...
Have a quote from this one I'll propose:
"Morality is the first step toward cowardice. Your cowardice has doomed your whole world. I will hunt down and kill everyone and everything you have ever loved. Listen for it...soon you will hear everyone you love scream.
I give you...Ulysses Klaw.
Who is Klaw?
The son of Nazi war criminal Fritz Klaue, who hd been driven from Wakanda and instilled his son Ulysses with tales of Wakanda and its Vibranium...Klaw became a genius physicist who specialized in applied sonics. Desiring a measure of Vibranium, Klaw lead an attack on Wakanda and killed many people, facing their king, T'chaka. The young prince, a boy named t'challa, rushed to his father's side and Klaw callously prepared to murder the little boy. T'chaka shielded his son and died, when a Wakandan warrior named Zuri intervened to save little T'challa. The orphan prince fired a weapon to obliterate Klaw's hand, making him swear revenge.
Later returning to plunder and destroy Wakanda, Klaw was defeated with the help of the Fantastic Four. Klaw always returns to Wakanda and while he's eager to help in mass destruction as it comes, his passion is to destroy Wakanda. Klaw is also a vicious boss, frequently murdering and torturing his minions at the drop of a hat, and allied with an alien race to facilitate earth's destruction before fleeing justice. Eventually defeated, Klaw was seemingly killed, but instead transformed into living energy/sound.
In this form, after multiple other outings, Klaw hits his chief run of villainy in Christopher Priest's Black Panther run: emerging from hiding, he turns out to be the one manipulating the war and knocks out Ghaur to take over...and launches an offense. Klaw simply wants destruction. Declaring himself an equal king to T'challa and the "end of days" to see all life destroyed, Klaw kicks the war off with the attack and goes for T'challa while fighting in a crowded city and actively targeting it. T'challa fights back, binds Klaw down and almost kills him.
When Shuri is Black Panther, Klaw devises a plan to steal all the Vibranium he had, annihilate the rest, destroy Wakanda and unleash new 'business partners' on earth, while he unleashes "The Scream," a sonic blast to wipe out the minds most of the earth and let Klaw reign over the rest wiht humans as his slaves....his medium? A scientist's daughter he's twisted into a mutilated robot form. When she tries to reason with Klaw, he makes it clear he's beyond it.
Shuri realizes she has to kill the girl, Joya, and Klaw vows if she does, he'll find another girl and he'll "drown Wakanda in a tide of blood" off the map...Shuri chooses not to kill an innocent, but frees Joya- who obliterates Klaw with her scream.
But...Klaw, of course, always returns and has since, though rarely to these levels.
Mitigating issues?
Klaw, to my knowledge, has never expressed love for his father Fritz. He's a mad scientist hungry for the resources of Wakanda with full on colonialist vibes to him. Klaw is...surprisingly nasty. He's a grandiose supervillain who at his core is a sadist. He's a twisted wreck of a man who derives pleasure from the pain of others, despises Wakanda, blames a little boy for maiming him when he killed hundreds of Wakandans, murdered the kid's dad and tried to kill him. Klaw harbors a hatred for Wakanda that can best be termed as 'genocidal' at the best of times...his number one goal is to make T'challa and to a lesser extent Shuri lose. He's highly vindictive and has no issues targeting the loved ones of his victims and enemies.
Interestingly, Joya calls him out that deep down? Klaw knows the pain of being alone and that destruction and tyranny are not the way to fill that void. Klaw acknowledges he is alone but then says that's the price he pays of being such a genius and he willingly chose his steps to ascension. No, Klaw has nothing resembling humanity, no excuses or anything but cruelty.
I was kinda surprised at how utterly terrible and far-reaching he is. Klaw is usually a team villain who pops up in the Frightful Four or Masters of Evil as another guy about...but when he's bad, he's fucking bad. The Wakanda attack killed hundreds and he usually tries to see it destroyed. Then you get The Scream and the attempt to end the world...
When Klaw wants to, he punches WAY out of his weight class.
Conclusion?
Keep
Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 4th 2022 at 11:47:21 AM
Klaw. (I knew he counted. Yes)
Though could we put him under Black Panther. He's super generic in fantastic four and well he is T'Challas arch enemy.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 4th 2022 at 11:53:49 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yeah, Christopher Priest's run and Klaws of the Panther are where he's worse, plus Fantastic Four Unlimited.
Notably Klaw despises even the notion of compassion and when Joya is freed, being a being of sound, she notes how amazing it is to hear the "music of the universe," with someone noting Klaw felt the same and chooses to be a monster.
Alright, I got through Part 1/3 of the Sphinx EP; he doesn't even have as big a role as in the next 2 books, and the EP's already 800+...this'll be a big one.
Also, pending:
- Clock King II (HT)
- Eagleton (HT)
- Vinh Moc (Jackie)
- Ulysses Klaw (Lighty)
- Ghaur (Lighty)
- Extus Narr (Lore)
- Blood Ranch (2006): Spider (Ravok)
- Duo
(Ravok)
- The Horde (2016): Cylus (Ravok)
- Toffee
(SuperYoshiFan02)
- Hudram (VengefulBale)

Edited by MGD107 on Feb 4th 2022 at 11:31:00 AM