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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#300051: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:13:00 PM

Sorry but the video is too long. Anywhere it could be cut?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#300052: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:14:05 PM

No to Brad.

Jones video works, I guess.

Spyland, please show Hammy some love. He worked hard on his effortpost.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 12:14:53 PM

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#300053: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:18:43 PM

[up][up] cut after 1:30 (after Ommadon ends his evil laugh)

Edited by NattesNovgrel on Feb 3rd 2022 at 11:20:27 AM

JVoorhees Since: Jun, 2017
#300054: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:24:37 PM

Deleted.

Edited by JVoorhees on Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:29:00 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#300055: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:26:37 PM

[up][up] In that case I like it.

When it comes to Rinny not voting yet but the tropes page doesn't make it look like this is a tonally conducive work.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:29:11 AM

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#300056: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:29:49 PM

[up] cool [tup]

Also yes to Eagleton (almost thought we were talking the Rob Schneider movie when I saw the name [lol])

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#300057: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:30:43 PM

Sorry, Voor; the work seems to be going for shock value, so I'm afraid I must decline the candidate.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 12:36:11 PM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#300058: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:31:31 PM

Defaulting to no on Rinny...not a sign of confidence when the trope page describes it as "Torture Porn to the furthest possible extreme."

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#300059: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:32:17 PM

Actually I had only glanced at the page reading it further yeah this does not look good and you haven't sufficiently addressed that [tdown] Rinny.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#300061: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:39:14 PM

Don't let it get you down that your first candidate was rejected, Voor. I've been here for slightly over three years and lost count of how many candidates I've gotten declined.

[down] It's not just a matter of it being "Torture Porn". It's that the work seems to run on shock value based on the page. The EP was otherwise fine.

If you are interested, I can keep an eye out for work recommendations.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 12:44:31 PM

JVoorhees Since: Jun, 2017
#300062: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:40:33 PM

I wasn't aware Torture Porn wasn't allowed. I should've read the FAQ more thoroughly, my bad.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#300063: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:43:23 PM

Eh, no harm done, it was a good faith EP.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#300064: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:44:56 PM

[tdown] Rinny

So Al's a bust, though I'm not surprised. How's about I make up for that one with a hilariously crappy action movie.

What Is the Work?

Soldier Boyz is a 1995 movie starring Michael Dudikoff. Though it’s probably more well known for its 1997 video game adaptation, an FMV rail shooter that was riffed on by Retsupurae, and had new footage shot by Darren Aronofsky. Yes, THAT Darren Aronofsky.

But I digress.

The plot’s about as basic of an action movie as you can get. When a CEO’s daughter, Gabrielle, is kidnapped and held hostage by some Vietnamese guerrilla soldiers, it’s up to Major Howard Toliver to rescue her. To do so, he forms a group of young prisoners he dubs the Suicide Squad the Soldier Boyz, comprised of Lamb, Brophy, Vasquez, Butts, Lopez, and Monster to rescue Gabrielle.

Who Is He?

Vinh Moc (played by Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa) is the ruthless leader of the National Liberation Front guerilla group, a revolutionary squad dedicated to destroying any political and trade agreements between America and North Vietnam.

What has he done?

Ruling a region of Vietnam with an iron fist, Moc is introduced shooting down a UN carrier full of people, with Gabrielle being one of those people. Upon realizing that the plane was full of emergency relief supplies to the people of Vietnam, when the sole survivor of the crash angrily tells Moc that “these are your people for god sakes!” Moc responds with “I am the people,” then shoots him. When he’s called out on this by his lieutenant, Moc kills him too. Moc later finds Gabrielle, then has her held hostage, hoping to hold her for three months so that he can milk $10 million worth of firearms from her father and eventually take over the city Ha Noi.

When Brophy tries to attack Moc’s men head-on, Moc arrives at the village the Boyz are staying at, holding a young woman at gunpoint to get the citizens to reveal their location, and then shooting the woman’s mom for trying to interfere. Moc decides to just hold a wounded Brophy at gunpoint to get the Boyz to reveal themselves. Once a firefight breaks out between the Boyz and Mock's men, Moc gets into an attack helicopter and kills Monster.

Later seen making Gabrielle record a video of Moc’s demands, when she refuses to read them, Moc threatens to kill some hostages, which makes Gabrielle comply. When the Boyz raid his base and rescue Gabrielle, Moc fights back in his attack helicopter, and it looks to be the end for the Boyz… only for Butts to remember that he had planted some C4 on the chopper the night before, so he whips out the detonator, and Moc dies in an explosion.

Well, that was easy.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. He requests his men to have his deceased lieutenant buried, but since he’s the one who killed him for a very petty reason, it feels very hollow. Other than that, Moc's portrayed as a selfish, ravenous animal who will happily kill anybody in his way to satiate his own bloodlust.

Heinousness?

Big Bad, settles it. Moc’s a violent asshole who wants to lead a trail of conquest throughout Vietnam.

Conclusion

Keeper

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:45:56 AM

It's Spooky Month!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#300066: Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:55:34 PM

[tup] to Vinh Moc.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:55:55 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#300067: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:14:57 PM

[tup]Vinh

[tdown]Rinny (any work that exists for shock value and only shock value is a no-go)

EDIT: Striked for being it being obvious at this point. My mistake.

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:31:26 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#300068: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:21:38 PM

[tup] Vinh.

I think Voor gets the point we don't need to mention it further lets just vote and move on.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#300069: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:23:44 PM

[tup] to Vinh

Edited by Powermaster201 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 1:24:18 PM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#300070: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:23:50 PM

Double posted by accident

Edited by Powermaster201 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 1:24:28 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#300071: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:24:23 PM

People are allowed to downvote, but...people need to get something: if one or two people have made a point? You don't need to belabor it.

Yea to the other.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#300072: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:24:53 PM

[tup]Moc.

Gonna have some candidates from a werewolf film I watched, Werewolf Castle (scheduling the discussion date according to its Digital/DVD premier date).

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#300073: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:27:51 PM

Clown, you might splitting if there's more than one? I know the filmmakers on twitter and was planning on giving that a look see. If there's just the one, it's all yours.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:28:39 AM

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#300074: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:40:56 PM

Okay. So the deadline has passed for Ultraman Trigger: New Generation Tiga, since the finale was 2 weeks ago; so now I'll propose the candidate I had in mind of this series for a long while.


What is the Work?

Ultraman Trigger: New Generation Tiga is the 33rd main entry in the Ultra Series, being a reimagining/remake-of-sorts of Ultraman Tiga and Ultraman Tiga: The Final Odyssey, featuring the adventures of a young man named Kengo Manaka, who becomes the Giant of Light, Ultraman Trigger, and joins the kaiju-fighting team GUTS Select to protect the world from the threat of the Dark Giants: Carmeara, Darrgon and Hudram; three evil Ultras who were sealed in stone in the past and reawakened in the present and seek the Eternity Core, a powerful artifact that can reshape the universe.

Who is the Candidate and What Have they Done?

The candidate is in question Hudram, the Agile Tactician, he is a fast-paced and seemingly calm schemer but is shown to be truly malicious, selfish and sadistic underneath.

His crimes across the series include outright genocide on an innocent planet which was the first thing he did upon awakening from his prison, while the deed was offscreen we see the repercussions of his actions in the present day through the Space Thief, Ignis, who is the sole survivor of his genocide and wants to get revenge for the deaths of his people; when we're shown flashbacks to the aftermath Hudram is shown to have spared him purely because he wanted to save a little for later AKA purely out of sadistic boredom. In the present day Hudram initially seems to have fully forgotten the incident, but is later all but staed to not have forgotten it, simply pretending to do so to mess with Ignis out of sadistic glee.

Hudram would later scheme to use one of his super monsters, Metsu Orga/Orochi to cause ruin and destruction on Earth purely for his amusement, even having it attack cities. In hte latter half of the series he abandons his own side to try and take over alone because of a delusion he was given by a Kyrieloid where Darrgon told him that he was more fit to lead than Carmeara who he insults for having emotions for Trigger, trying to use monsters to capture the GUTS Select member Yuna, who is the key to the Eternity Core, at one point an alien he recruited to his cause, Barriguiler, ends up quickly turning on him once he learns from Yuna herself that Hudram plans to plunge the Universe into eternal darkness which would implicitly end all life.

In his final outing he fully betrays his teammates by trapping them and promising to have them enslaved to his will into his mindless servants once he obtains the Eternity Core, when Ignis races to take it so he can resurrect his people and kidnaps Yuna to open the gate to the Core, Hudram takes her hostage and gives Ignis the option of either letting him kill her and achieve his goal or defend her; the latter option which Ignis chooses. When they fight one last time, Hudram almost kills Ignis as Trigger Dark before his bonds with Kengo and co. help him obtain a power of Light and Darkness that let him weaken Hudram enough to drive him away.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Hell no, Hudram is never shown to have any redeeming trait that sticks and he isn't motivated by anything besides a sadistic desire for "fun", fun which involves causing misery and pain to countless beings. His genocide happens offscreen, but it is not all offscreen villainy as we see the aftermath of his act on the sole survivor of his massacre who he takes all the sadistic glee in taunting about forgetting and later remarking how much he enjoyed causing pain to his race and even eating a few to keep "memories" of that day.

And while he initially seems amicable with his fellow Dark Giants, he eventually betrays them purely because of an illusion forced on him, which even learning of its true nature he took it to heart as a sign to betray his side without remorse, planning to have them brainwashed into his slaves when he was done. Darrgon is an outstanding example as he only ever tried to keep his team together and even showed encouragement to Hudram, yet the latter still planned to brainwash him into his servant without caring to return the kindness given to him.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Almost misses the mark because Carmeara gets close to his vileness, but he actually gets there because of sheer pettiness and scope of his actual atrocities alongside not caring about anyone but himself; Carmeara goes fully omnicidal later on like him as she plots to plunge the universe into darkness, but unlike Hudram she has gone completely insane by the time she executes her ultimate plan as it happens as the end result of a long-developing Villainous Breakdown. And Darrgon's own heinousness is miniscule even before he tries to turn to the side of good.

Final Verdict?

Solid keeper. Hudram is the vilest member of his team and earns his status as a full blown monster full force. Subverting any possible redeeming traits such as camadarie and standards and overall having the highest direct body count and no mitigating factors such as legitimate insanity (like Carmeara does) to keep him from counting.

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#300075: Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:44:32 PM

[up][up]I'd actually discussed collabing with DemonDuck since it seemed like something he'd be interested in and there are indeed two candidates. He just now bowed out due to other stuff coming up, so yeah, wouldn't mind splitting.

Why so serious?

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