During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Mercury Black quote, Dark Star, Mephistopheles, Jhin, Graham, Kusho, Tsabo, Lord Viribus, Chester Bundy, Malphas, Mochi.
Scissors, Baron, Flumpty, Jacques quotes.
I just noticed the StarCraft quote also is under the literature section of the main quotes page.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineOK for Mochi, the Kamigawa story line emphasizes Lord Konda as The Heavy who more or less set off the plot and pushes Mochi down to Big Bad Wannabe status. Mochi doesn't actually achieve much of his goals at all, but intent is far more important here so that doesn't bother me.
The bigger issue for me is that he is the patron God of the Soragami, or Moonfolk, and they aren't really an evil people at all. His plan would have greatly benefited them, yet as their patron he would get more out of it. I'm leaning yes here overall, but first I want some explicit confirmation he doesn't care about the Moonfolk at all before I lock in that vote.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.![]()
That's because Ezekiel Daun is from a book.
I am back with another proposal.
What's the work?
The Last Stand
is a fanfic based on the popular Netflix animated show, She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. The fanfic takes place directly after the end of season 4 and acts as an alternative to season 5.
Who is the candidate? What has he done?
Horde Prime (what a surprise) is the leader of the Galactic Horde who has conquered most of the known universe in the past and has destroyed countless civilizations should they refuse to bow to him.
After teleporting Hordak, Glimmer and Catra to his ship, he imprisons Catra and Glimmer in a cell and spends long hours mind-raping and torturing Hordak in an attempt to completely erase his memory and make him a loyal servant again but fails miserably because Hordak's memory returns each time.
Prime then attempts to do the same to Catra while casually informing her that he is going to do this to every single member of the Horde to turn them into loyal minions but fails yet again but due to his treatment of her, she faints in Glimmer's arms and needs time to heal. Then, Adora and her friends come and rescue the two girls and run back to Bright Moon. An enraged Horde Prime sends his forces after them to raze Bright Moon, kill everyone who stands in their way and bring his prisoners back. When his forces fail at their task, Horde Prime strangles the clone who informed him over the failure to death.
Horde Prime then attacks the Fright Zone with the intention of mind-raping the members of the Horde into loyal minions but Catra manages to warn them with a transmission in time and they run from there. Horde Prime manages to reach Catra and after he overpowers her, he proclaims that he is going to torture her to death by first blowing off her legs and arms and a dozen other places on her body but Adora appears in time to save her friend. Prime tells her that he can bring her back to her true family if Adora leaves Catra to die and joins him but after Adora refuses, he proclaims that he is going to deliver her severed head to her family, so that they can be reunited and attempts to shoot Catra in front of Adora out of spite.
Some time later, Horde Prime manages to kidnap Adora. He has also managed to restore Adora's sword and plans to mind-control Adora and thus have control over She-ra and over the Heart of Etheria. Due to midification he has made, The Heart will now not destroy everything but instead can be used to destroy a single planet of his own choice and he plans to destroy Eternia, the homeworld of He-Man and afterwards he plans to use it to make the rest of the universe bow to his will.
He also forces Adora to fight against her friends and mocks her that she is going to be the one who would kill her own friends. Fortunately, Adora's friends manage to reach out to her and with their help Adora is able to change the course of the weapon and to target Horde Prime's ship instead of Eternia. Hordak pulls a redemption arc, disables his master's ship, preventing his escape, and punches him in the face while the two of them are engulfed by the power of the weapon.
Reedeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Nope. Just like his canon counterpart he claims that he wants to bring peace and order to the universe but it's pretty clear that he is simply doing it to enact his own narcissistic desires. At one point he even says that in order to bring order to the universe, someone must rule over everything and it is his duty and burden and Catra doesn't buy this nonesense, internally mocks him and thinks "Of course, I bet it makes you feel miserable, doesn't it?"
At one point he wants to torture Catra to death for "taking his Clones from him" after she killed them but there is absolutely no indication that he is sad or angry over their deaths and he just sees them as extentions of himself and at other times the text emphasizes on how horribly he treats them, so that's not redeeming either.
Heinous standard
There are a number of actions that are not shown in the story itself but happen before it. Hordak waged war on Etheria and commited genocide against the Magicats. Catra opened a portal that almost destroyed reality but multiple characters throughout the story comment that she wasn't actually aware that the portal would destroy the universe and the story itself supports this view, plus it is just mentioned and happens completely off-stage. Light Hope activating the Heart of Etheria is also mentioned but happens off-stage. Shadow Weaver is an abusive parent and at the end she subverts all her redeeming qualities and tries to kill both Catra and Adora and their friends but fails the heinous standard.
I would say that Horde Prime is bad enough. It is mentioned that he has destroyed countless civilizations (even if it is off-stage), subjects people to midn-rape to brainwash them which is treated like torture by the story and attempts to do it to everyone in Hordak's Horde, tries to destroy Bright Moon, attempts to slowly torture Catra to death and finally brainwashes Adora to kill her friends (and mocks her over the fact) and attempts to use her connection to the sword to destroy the planet of Eternia. I would say he is bad enough.
Conclusion
Edited by WatTambor on Jan 16th 2022 at 4:01:01 PM
Horde Prime
"Who's the eugenicist?"
Yawgmoth, already voted yes.
"The bigger issue for me is that he is the patron God of the Soragami, or Moonfolk, and they aren't really an evil people at all. His plan would have greatly benefited them, yet as their patron he would get more out of it. I'm leaning yes here overall, but first I want some explicit confirmation he doesn't care about the Moonfolk at all before I lock in that vote."
Side materials show he doesn't care much about them beyond being his tools. I'm trying to find the specific source but I swear it was listed in multiverseinreview.
When determining a Complete Monster's heinousness, a large portion is placed into attempting actions rather than how much success they had. As a result, I was wondering: How much worse are successful actions compared to attempted actions? And likewise, when would an attempted action out-shadow/out-heinous a similar but successful action given similar resources?
Okay, o from Season 4 of Young Justice, we have a discussion.
I give you...Child.
Who is Child?
A Lord of Chaos, one of the primordial forces of the universe, opposed by Lords of Order. One of the Lords of Chaos, Klarion the Witch Boy has been on earth, allied with Vandal Savage and this has not made the other Chaos Lords happy...arriving on earth is Child in the form of a little blond girl who's out to supplant Klarion. And she's way, WAY stronger, harnessing the powers of all the other Chaos Lords. She promptly finds a jewel to anchor herself as corporeal and kills a security guard to study his innards.
Hunting down Klarion, Child wastes no time in trying to end him. A terrified Klarion tries to flee her, with Vandal Savage recognizing the danger of this and prepping a full evacuation of his family and forces to Warworld. Some of the magic heroes try to assist Klarion since, to put it simply, Child removing Klarion will mean her running wild on earth. Child kills Klarion's anchor, his beloved cat Teekl, whose neck she has sadistically snapped by her anchor Flaw. Klarion is thrown off the mortal plane as Child destroys the tower of Fate, trying to kill everyone there along with dealing a blow to the Lord of Order Nabu...
Gleeful over a chance for annihilation, C Hild begins to enact natural disasters and devastation all over the world. Volcanoes, storms, you name it....with the heroes barely preventing mass casualties as Child cheerfully tries to melt the polar ice caps and easily defeats the heroes, mocking them how they can't kill her "But I can kill every single thing on this earth."
The heroes manage to convince the Lords of Chaos and Order that earth is needed to stop the threat of Darkseid, and the Chaos Lords decide to revoke Child's boost. Depowered, her anchor is destroyed and Child is banished.
Mitigating issues?
Not really any. Heinousness, Child is monstrous who plans to murder every living thing on the planet in a pretty horrible fashion. Now, Klarion is...not exactly a saint. As a Lord of Chaos, Klarion wiped out Vandal Savage's home village and tortured him for a while. Klarion sank Atlantis (the whole country) and has done some fucked up things. Child? Child is worse and plans to reduce earth to a barren wasteland with nothing left alive, people killed by widescale disaster or her murdering them personally.
Now, as a Lord of Chaos, Child has a...unique way of looking at the world, sure. She's a being of chaos but this arc firmly shows chaos =/= evil. The other Lords of Chaos are FAR more reasonable than Child is, and while Klarion is nasty, he's capable of love and friendship. He's...spacy, but he loves Teekl dearly (he's near tears when he mentions Child killed his "best friend") and Child is overtly sadistic and cruel.
Conclusion?
A keeper.
Yes to Prime and Child.
Yawgmoth tortured the hell out of servants that failed him and other guys like Bolas and Leshrac were notoriously cruel to their minions. I wanted a little bit more from Mochi in that department, but you worked hard on this candidate and he is an interesting one so I will leave it with
.
Do you have anything to weigh in here Lighty? We're both digging into the Magic stuff so another opinion wouldn't hurt.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Think I'm fine with Mochi, long as he doesn't show explicit care.
There's no argument I can see Klarion doesn't love Teekl. He's outright crying when she dies, and his explicit words later are "She killed my anchor!" Before his voice cracks with clear grief as he adds "...and my best friend."
He flat out bonds to a new kitten whom he takes as a new Teekl later and is very patient and gentle with it. Anchor or no, Klarion adores Teekl.
Uh, Bolas is one of the most powerful villains in the franchise with the ability to traverse the entire multiverse. I wouldn't use him as a comparison stick for someone on a single plane.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Also
Malphas and Mochi
“Get Snuck-Up On.”