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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#297301: Jan 16th 2022 at 12:51:08 PM

Seems fine now.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#297302: Jan 16th 2022 at 12:59:38 PM

Tentative [tup] to the Loud House bad guys

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#297304: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:00:23 PM

Uh could I get more thoughts on this video?

Also abstain on the fanfic stuff. Not my thing.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 16th 2022 at 1:00:46 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#297305: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:01:11 PM

What was the video?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#297306: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:01:15 PM

I like the video, also if It gets enough votes I will upload it as usual. At this point, I have basically taken on the video manager role [lol].

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#297307: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:02:41 PM

@AustinDR This one. Which, BTW, I'm saying yes to.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#297308: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:04:41 PM

Oh, then, yes I like it.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#297309: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:20:13 PM

Quick question what episode is the video from?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#297310: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:24:05 PM

His debut the one and only Doctor Who S12 E4 "Genesis of the Daleks"

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#297311: Jan 16th 2022 at 1:25:56 PM

Though this does make me wonder, should we impose a limit on how many video examples a character can have, as this will be Davros' second one already? I am fine with it being two but I am not sure how big it should be if we want to implement it.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#297312: Jan 16th 2022 at 2:22:04 PM

I do not like voting on fanfic characters.

In terms of Monster videoes what about these, I don't want to overwhelm the thread, but I think they are interesting to discuss:

Osyraa kills her nephew:

Cut after 1:40

Sebastian Shaw kills Mangeto's mom:

Maybe cut around 1:30, I am a bit flexible on that.

Darkseid kills Dan Turpin,

Go from 3:40 till the end.

Edited by Overlord on Jan 16th 2022 at 2:39:37 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#297313: Jan 16th 2022 at 2:38:16 PM

Anyway, was looking back into Dead of Summer again. Might have overlooked a potential candidate. Also first for 2022.

What is the work?

Dead of Summer is a horror series consisting of ten episodes. It takes place at a fictional summer camp with a dark history. I already got Amy, the twist villain, up, but I feel that her master warrants at least a discussion.

Who is it? What has it done?

Malphas was a demonic entity that was worshiped by a Satanic cult in the late 1800s. When Holyoke and his congregation entered the lake to purify it, Malphas's cult massacred his congregation and frame him for the mass murders resulting in him being wrongfully lynched.

Malphas would remain imprisoned in the lake where Camp Stillwater would eventually be founded. Seeking a pure vessel, Amy Hughes, who had murdered her friend in order to be interviewed as a potential counselor, agrees with freeing Malphas claiming that he understood her.

Eventually, a pentagram would be made as part of the summoning ritual with Amy secretly assisting the Satanic cult. They kidnap her to complete the ritual slitting their throats as well. A solar eclipse forms to signify that the conjuring was a success with Malphas taking possession of Amy.

With Holyoke's assistance, the remaining camp counselors try to exorcise Malphas from Amy whilst Malphas attempts to intervene several times such as by preventing Deb from leaving on a bus with the young campers by coating it in blood. Malphas then murders the bus driver when he goes out to investigate. Jessi, the Alpha Bitch, offers herself to Malphas if it meant that Amy was spared. The demon does as she demands and enters her. She is then tossed into a cauldron containing pure water.

Malphas vacates her body and Jessi survives despite the initial belief that no one would be able to survive being submerged. Amy performs CPR on her...which consists of her allowing Malphas to re-possess her. Turns out that the campers were wrong: Malphas did want a pure vessel as in a pure evil one.

The two try to murder Jessi due to her having a piece of Holyoke's soul inside of her that was keeping them from leaving. The remaining group tries to use Holyoke's recordings against Malphas only for it to be revealed that the demon sabotaged them when he was possessing Amy. Instead, they play Holyoke's sacred hymn over a walkie-talkie weakening Malphas enough for Jessi to take Amy's head and end it.

Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?

So, initially, I was overlooking Malphas due to him being rather flat in comparison to Amy who had that whole backstory thing. But Malphas does have a personality: when Malphas takes over Amy's body, it taunts Garrett by mimicking the voice of his father as well as taunting another survivor. It also displays sadistic tendencies through Amy's actions. Malphas is also manipulative with deceiving the others into thinking that it desired a pure "innocent" vessel when it really wanted a purely evil one.

Heinous standard

Amy is the muscles of the operation as well as doing the scheming, but the events of the series can be laid down at Malphas's hooved feet since he was the one who empowered Amy to begin with.

Conclusion

Feel less strong with this one and could go either way.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#297314: Jan 16th 2022 at 2:39:28 PM

I do quite like the Darkseid and Shaw video not as sure on the Osyraa one.

Not sure on Austin's

Thinking about it more [tup] Malphas

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 16th 2022 at 2:51:11 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#297315: Jan 16th 2022 at 2:43:42 PM

He’s got the whole creating a suicidally devoted cult used as muscle for murders in addition to the stuff with Amy. Easy yes.

monotrematum Since: Nov, 2021
#297317: Jan 16th 2022 at 2:54:17 PM

Here's a controversial take in light of the new Magic: The Gathering examples

Intro.

So the Kamigawa Cycle takes place in a world inspired by feudal Japan which the original creative staff described as "Shinto gone wrong" per their words. Essentially, the kami are at war with the mortals in a bloody massacre because daimyio Konda stole That-Which-Was-Taken, a piece of the greatest of the kami (O-Kagachi) in other to make himself immortal.

While this set is notable for the only set to date where the protagnist is Black-aligned and the main villain White-aligned, we're not talking about those guys. Konda could qualify since his actions are explicitly selfish and he has a lot of blood in his hands, but ultimately he was trying to bring prosperity to humanity (whence the White alignment) and loved his daughter which I think are effectively dampeners.

The actual candidate

Mochi is the kami of the crescent moon. He advised Konda (through his emissary Meloku) to steal from O-Kagachi because A) he wanted to see what happened, B) he was enacting on long term goals to make the soratami the dominant race and remake Kamigawa in his image.

As the chaos of the war between spirits and mortals reaches its apex, Mochi begins to be very proactive. He has the soratami march into the Jukai Forest and the Takenuma Swamp to lay waste to these places, kill the people and start the process of remaking the world in his image. He tricks the Orochi (snake people) into getting themselves eaten by O-Kagashi, and tries multiple times to manipulate Toshiro and Michiko, claiming to be helpful but ultimately trying to goad them to get more people killed.

Ultimately, his schemes fail to get him away from Hidetsugu, who now fused with the Oni of All Consuming Chaos devours him as he begs for his life.

Heinous Standard

This is the tricky thing since we've already established a remarkably high bar with genocidal maniacs targetting multiple worlds, a literal eugenicist and a serial killer. I do believe Mochi can qualify in light of these factors because is still a genocidal maniac operating with as much as he knows, which is his own world. With his limited resources, he not only inspired Konda to doom everyone but activelly began to be proactive in his crimes.

Kamigawa's story at the time was also more self-contained. This is not the case as early as Time Spiral, but at the time of his murderous rampage Moshi was pretty much the most malevolent entity around.

Mitigating Qualities

He claims that "it's their own good" but nobody buys this. Really, conidering he openly admits to both being a liar and that he wants Kamigawa remade in his image, its pretty clear that he seeks perfection at the expense of all other life. Even the soratami are a means to an end.

Trivia

If accepted this would be the first non-Black aligned canidate.

Conclusion

Waiting your judgement.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#297318: Jan 16th 2022 at 3:15:41 PM

ignore this. The Lich video was edited. Gah

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jan 16th 2022 at 3:22:02 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#297319: Jan 16th 2022 at 3:16:41 PM

Yes to Malphas but I want to read up a bit on Mochi first.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#297320: Jan 16th 2022 at 3:20:12 PM

I am not feeling that Lich video, I have no idea what to even make of it.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#297321: Jan 16th 2022 at 3:22:23 PM

[up] I just noticed it was an edited video. I’m stupid. There used to be an unedited version of that clip but I guess it was taken down.

Here’s a video suggestion of the Joker torturing Tim Drake. Cut around 1:19.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLIHzolww1k

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jan 16th 2022 at 3:35:40 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#297322: Jan 16th 2022 at 3:48:54 PM

Yes to Malphas; tentative yes to Mochi.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#297324: Jan 16th 2022 at 3:53:09 PM

[tup]malphas and ill yeah Mochi assuming nothing. Else comes up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

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