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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#296801: Jan 12th 2022 at 8:23:18 AM

Ok, here are the Soul drafts:

  • Soul Tetralogy, by LadyDaybreaker: Both sides of the Big Bad Duumvirate are equally evil.
    • Scott is a Serial Killer who kills people because he can. In Freddy Fazbear's Pizza, he would use the Golden Freddy costume to lure five children to the backstage, where he would kill all but one of them, who managed to get away while Scott was busy cutting off one of his victims' body parts. When the Marionette tricks the four children into haunting the Freddy's animatronics, Scott would use chips containing viruses that make them aggressive at night to kill night guards, all while posing as the "Phone Guy", with implications he purposefully gave the guards bad hints to get them killed. Coming Back from the Dead as Springtrap, he would kill Mikayla "Mike" Schmidt, the sole survivor of his killings, by trapping her in the Golden Freddy costume and causing a springlock failure. A spiteful man who admits he loves chaos and destruction, his final act before eternal damnation in Hell was trying to stop Mike's son from saving his mother and allowing her to move on to Heaven.
    • The Marionette was hit with Adaptational Villainy. Seeking to have a "family" made of minions and puppets, the Marionette teams up with Scott to kill five children, trap their souls inside the animatronics and brainwash them with a virus. Using this virus, the Marionette would use the animatronics as killing machines, having them hunt for night guards for an entire decade. Alongside this, when the animatronics befriended Jeremy Fitzgerald, he made Foxy hallucinate and think Jeremy is Scott, causing the robot to bite off the man's frontal lobe. When Mikayla "Mike" Schmidt is hired as the night guard at Freddy's, he would try to make the robots kill their best friend - and in Foxy's case, own sister - to stop her from freeing their spirits. Twenty years later, upon Mike's death and resurrection, the Marionette would try to kill her teenage son Robby II, brainwashing the animatronics - including Mike - once again to do so.

Edited by RK93 on Jan 12th 2022 at 5:25:08 PM

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#296802: Jan 12th 2022 at 8:23:25 AM

Abstain on razorbeard

Edited by Mediawatcher on Jan 12th 2022 at 8:23:31 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296803: Jan 12th 2022 at 8:30:15 AM

When it comes to Sergio ACW I have no idea what to think of him, he seems to be written so weirdly and it seems nobody else has really any idea what to do with him as nobody is voting either way. With a lack of cut votes, we might just need to leave him up possibly on the idea that the odd writing makes it hard to say if his redeeming quality is genuine or not. I wonder have we ever had a situation like this?

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#296805: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:18:36 AM

Since Lighty just did Tezzeret, I wanted to go over a couple of really old Magic the Gathering villains, all the way back in the early days when the plot mainly focused on Urza vs. Yawgmoth and Phyrexia. First up, we have one of the original Black aligned Planeswalkers.

Who is Leshrac?

Leshrac, also known as the Walker of Night, was an incredibly powerful sorcerer skilled in all manner of evil magics from nightmarish illusions to the breaking of minds to mass necromancy. Nothing is known of his past, something that would have been expanded on in the cancelled comics, but his earliest role was during the Ice Age block. After Urza set off the massive blast that caused the plane Dominaria to enter an early Ice Age, a side effect was also to preventing planeswalking outside of a 12 planes near Dominaria in a prison known as the Shard. Leshrac allied with fellow evil planeswalker Tvesh Szat to plan an invasion of the plane Shandalar that moved in and out of the Shard, hoping to hitch a ride and later conquer the magic rich plane. He magically empowered the necromancer Lim-Dul to create a vast undead army for him, and forced his minion to grow horns to remind himself of his place as Leshrac's animal. The undead armies created mass death during the Ice Age, but the remaining human nations united and destroyed the undead forces. This infuriated Leshrac, and he tore Lim-Dul to pieces, using his magic to keep alive as a constantly suffering ball of flesh.

As a back-up plan, Leshrac and Tvesh infiltrated the Summit of the Null Moon between various Planeswalkers on how to free themselves. Believing their sparks could shatter the Shard, the duo incited violence but only succeeded in getting innocent parties killed, yet enough to let them escape to Shandalar. Without his undead host, Leshrac was beaten back by Shandalar's guardian and went off to spread atrocities in other planes, as few other good planeswalkers had ended the Shard and the Ice Age. Later on, he returned to Dominaria and created his own dystopic land before the planeswalker Taysir arrived and imprisoned him in Phyrexia. Eventually escaping, he gave Dominaria a wide berth for a few centuries following the apocalyptic invasion by Yawgmoth, only to finally return to the story during the Time Spiral block.

Interested in rifts tearing apart the fabric of the Multiverse, he returned to Dominaria and made contact with the Kami Myogin and was given the powerful Mask of Night's Reach to by her to end the Elder Dragon Nicol Bolas and his vendetta against her. With unlimited ambition, he first set out to study the time rifts and dominated the mind of the planeswalker Jeska after she was recently freed from the dark powers of the death god Phage. Leshrac used her to close the time rift over the land of Zhalfir, which was phased in time by the planeswalker Teferi who was also born there. Zhalfir was temporally unstable after Teferi shifted it out of time during the Phyrexian Invasion, and Leshrac was fully aware of this. The forced closure by Jeska caused the entire continent of and all its people to be phased out of time completely with apparently no hope of ever recovering it, and Leshrac reveled in the suffering this caused Teferi and Jeska.

Now in tune with Jeska, he strips her off her Phage's dark consumption powers just as she and her party arrived to close the final rift at Madara. More than willing to sabotage their efforts and willing to let the entire Multiverse die, Leshrac intended on using that power and the Mask of Night's Reach to kill Nicol Bolas and take his place as the most powerful Planeswalker. When Bolas arrives to Madara to investigate the time rift over his ancient kingdom, Leshrac ambushes him and they engage in an epic battle that transpired over many planes. Leshrac appeared to have the upper hand the entire fight with Phage's powers slowly rotting away Bolas's body, until they finally ended up back on Dominaria and Leshrac prepared his death blow. Alas, he vastly underestimated Bolas, who revealed he already defeated Myogin and had her true Mask, and the one Leshrac had was just a mere imitation. Bolas used the power of the true Mask to heal himself and imprisoned Leshrac within it. Ultimately, Bolas sacrificed the Mask with Leshrac's spark inside it to seal the rift over Madara and finally bring the Nightwalker's terrible existence to an end.

Any mitigating factors?

Nope.

Heinous standard?

Besides nearly bringing the struggling nations of Dominaria to their knees with an undead army, Leshrac was also willing to let the rest of the Multiverse die just to be top dog for however long he could have it. That puts him right up there with the very worst. He's also shown to be personally cruel such as leaving his minion as a living ball of flesh and gloating to Teferi over how he brought an end to his homeland.

Final Verdict?

An easy [tup] here, but the next one might have an issue.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#296806: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:24:12 AM

[tup]Leshrac

[tdown]razorbeard

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#296807: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:24:57 AM

I don't think Razorbeard counts and that's about it.

Yes there Lore.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#296809: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:25:13 AM

Imma just abstain from the whole Sergio stuff and acknowledge he exists.

Sure to Leshrac. No to Razorbeard, a good reminder that Darker and Edgier doesn't necessarily means CM by definition.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jan 12th 2022 at 6:26:04 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#296810: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:31:51 AM

For Sergio I'd rather default to a cut rather than keep as leaving up a "We have no idea" case isn't a good practice.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#296811: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:32:43 AM

[up] Yeah, I'd say cut Sergio on the basis of "too inconsistent to make a hard judgement either way"

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296812: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:38:46 AM

Yes to Leshrac (I guess we'll need a page before long?).

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296813: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:43:57 AM

I am not saying we should leave him up based on the fact we have no idea, I am saying that we could as his redeeming quality is too inconsistent to call a proper redeeming quality. If the thread decides otherwise though I can live with that, I don't really have any stock in this.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#296814: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:54:53 AM

[tup] for Kumozawa, Tezzeret, the Tarkin video, and Leshrac.

[tdown] for Fukari (tentative), Thorne, and Razorbeard. (tentative)

Cut Kovar.

My late condolences, Lighty.

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#296815: Jan 12th 2022 at 9:57:42 AM

Switching to [tdown] Razor

Couldn't really care less what happens to a fanfic villain. I say it's better to cut him to be safe if it's too unclear.

Sure to Leahrac

Edited by Snowy66 on Jan 12th 2022 at 9:58:15 AM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#296816: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:01:46 AM

Thinking about it, yeah, I agree with cutting Sergio. If someone manages to get through the wonky writing and deems him a keeper, they can always relitigate him later. 🚶🏾‍♂️

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jan 12th 2022 at 7:03:00 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#296817: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:06:34 AM

[up] Yes, exactly. A character not qualifying should be the default.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#296818: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:06:37 AM

[tup]Leshrac

[tdown]Kovar

IDK what to think about Sergio

Edited by nwotyzal on Jan 12th 2022 at 10:08:55 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#296819: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:09:06 AM

I'd just cut Sergio because of the tonal wonkiness.

[tdown] Razorbeard

Edited by AustinDR on Jan 12th 2022 at 10:09:46 AM

CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#296820: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:16:09 AM

Cut Sergio. We removed Norman Osborn from this trope despite him trying to murder Harry (who he cares for in most of his other appearences) in Dark Reign. Inconsistency is not an issue.

Also, I'm changing my vote on Razorbeard to a [tdown]. Looking back on it, he just isn't heinous enough. Even if he is the vilest villain the Rayman games had to offer.

Edited by CaptainPinkiePie on Jan 12th 2022 at 2:17:43 PM

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#296821: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:16:13 AM

Wasn't Razorbeard already disapproved for being Played for Laughs, though?

Just an empty void…
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#296822: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:27:52 AM

[up] it's offscreen Villainy is why we're downvoting.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#296824: Jan 12th 2022 at 10:54:29 AM

I'll check back on Razorbeard. I was actually in favour when he was proposed before and I wanna make sure all the bases are covered. I don't think Offscreen Villainy should be a problem concerning our new rules regarding OV.

Yes to the Magic Candidates, and my condolences Lighty. I've lost pets myself.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Jan 12th 2022 at 10:55:32 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#296825: Jan 12th 2022 at 11:31:12 AM

[tup] Tezzeret (condolences, Lighty) and Leshrac. [tdown] Razorbeard.
Cut Sergio and Kovar.


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