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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296776: Jan 12th 2022 at 2:21:51 AM

Work

Rayman 2

Admiral Razorbeard

Razorbeard is a marauding space pirate captain and the Big Bad of the second game. Razorbeard is infamous across the galaxy for his genocidal conquests, having pillaged over a hundred planets, enslaving as many natives as he can before always blowing said planets up to dust. Razorbeard was once repelled by Rayman when he tried to invade the Glade of Dreams, but eventually, he returned and decided to destroy the Heart of the World to weaken his Arch-Enemy, not caring for the consequences. Though this does not destroy the Glade, it sets the world on the path of the apocalypse as the Glade is corrupted and sent into complete disarray. Razorbeard for his part does not care, resuming his usual plot of Rape, Pillage, and Burn with full intent to simply depart before the Glade self-destructs.

Although Razorbeard is largely an Orcus on His Throne in the game proper, we fully see what his conquests look like in the game: his pirates visibly torture and enslave children, pollute the seas, and torch or steal everything they can find.

He has a Gag Character wife only appearing in the non-canon spinoff Rayman M but given the game has no story and its state, it shouldn't be considered the same way the cartoon has an AU depiction of him as a moronic comic relief villain.

Mitigating Factors

No. We see Razorbeard often monologuing from his lair where he's revealed to be a deranged psychopath fantasizing about violence on his enemies. He has no care for his subordinates, berates them constantly for their failures, and warns his right hand he will torture and kill him after he's done killing Rayman in the Final Battle.

Heinous Standard

Rayman has a pretty low bar I think. Mr. Dark is a pretty enigmatic villain we never know much of, and while Andre is evil, he does not get far in his plans for domination due to being trapped in Globox and most of that game being spent on the heroes and villains trying to expel him from his belly. His dimwitted minions never accomplish more than bullying others around compared to Razorbeard's feats. And, of course, the Rabbids are Played for Laughs

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 12th 2022 at 5:11:43 AM

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#296777: Jan 12th 2022 at 2:31:32 AM

Sure to Razorbeard

Edited by Snowy66 on Jan 12th 2022 at 4:11:27 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#296778: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:06:13 AM

[tup] Razorbeard

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#296779: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:10:59 AM

[tup]Razorbeard.

Cut Kovar.

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296780: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:12:27 AM

Assuming we see enough onscreen, sure to Razorbeard. What happens to him?

And what are we doing about Sergio?

Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296781: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:18:37 AM

@ACW

he flees after one last near-successful bid in killing Rayman and isn't seen in the series again despite swearing revenge, apart from a canonically dubious appearance in an adaptation for 3. A reminder that after the third installment, this series went through an incredibly troubled production cycle before settling on a very, very whimsical and lighthearted tone in Origins, never grasping at the tone of 2 and 3 again. So "what could have been" is very much in effect if the real Rayman 4 came to pass over the Rabbids.

I've long been curious about Razorbeard because he hasn't had an entry on this site, but is featured as an old staple for absolute evil on the other wikis. I just remembered him recently, though.

EDIT: I also realized upon reviewing it again in that with his final act of trying to kill Rayman, he also annihilates his entire remaining crew by destroying his warship without any warning.

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 12th 2022 at 4:29:47 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#296782: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:34:21 AM

I don't have time to find it now but I could swear we did discuss and downvote Razorbeard. I'm abstaining for now because the EP feels off but I'll clock in after work probably.

Cut Kovar and Sergio... it's a fanfic, I really don't care and the writing seems all over the place.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#296783: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:45:35 AM

I know that the pillaging and world draining happens but when does the child slavery part happen again?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296784: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:54:42 AM

@WetFlannels

The "Iron Mountains" (14:10) segment of the game demonstrates Razorbeard kidnaps children and forces them into slave labor. The final level also confirms (29:20) many of the slaves seen shadowed in the cages at the prologue are little kids.

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 12th 2022 at 5:04:17 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#296785: Jan 12th 2022 at 5:04:17 AM

[up] Alright thanks for clarifying, I think I mightve been thinking of the ps1 version

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#296786: Jan 12th 2022 at 5:33:26 AM

Here is the original EP, where he was downvoted for concern that he was Played for Laughs.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296787: Jan 12th 2022 at 5:40:42 AM

that is rather strange looking back on the game now. There's practically nothing about him that can be described as funny sans the fourth major scene where he throws a tantrum akin to a Psychopathic Manchild

The concerns of his depiction in M are raised in that talk, but it's explicitly not canon. It kind of feels like I incidentally raised a shadow of that six-year-old proposal, but since there was some doubt or skepticism to it, I don't think it's too questionable to review some aspects to this again.

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 12th 2022 at 5:46:18 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#296788: Jan 12th 2022 at 5:47:01 AM

I just checked the reservations and the boys season 3 isn't there, is it alright if I reserve it?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#296789: Jan 12th 2022 at 6:15:55 AM

Oh boy, Razorbeard.

The thing about him destroying the Heart Of the World... nothing really says that the world would be plunged into destruction? Not only do we never actually see him destroying the thing other than in the Manuel, but all it does during gameplay is sap the world of its magic, thus allowing the pirates to capture Rayman easier. Not once does the game go "oh yeah the Glade Of Dreams is about to fucking explode good luck".

The only other thing that could make him heinous is the whole "enslavement" thing, which hilariously the game provides a count for, but that aspect is only briefly explored in the intro and nowhere else.

TDLR; none of Razorbeard's heinous stuff is actually explored enough, and what is shown is generic villainy. He's one of those cases where the dude sounds heinous on paper, but in execution he falls flat.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#296790: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:07:44 AM

Yeah, the depth to which his villainy is played is my large concern. It’s Raymon, if we see kids looking sad in cages should we really be going “Holy shit he’s a slaver ready to use them for labour or sexual slavery!”?

Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296791: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:09:33 AM

the updated releases mention that by destroying the Heart of the World, Razorbeard disrupted the natural order of the world, inadvertently spawning monsters from Polokus' subsequent nightmares and driving the sanctuary guardians insane.

@43110

Besides the ones trapped in cages on his warship, what do you make of the vast amounts of kids he sends to the mines?

EDIT: The dialogue from the pirates alone there makes it completely apparent he's using them for labor so there's no doubt to it at all.

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 12th 2022 at 7:23:51 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#296792: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:24:05 AM

Yeah, I don't remember the child slaves being treated as worse than his usual caging Of other residents. Really, his whole "eslavement" shtick is treated as "slapping everyone he finds in a cage" and not much else.

[up] Do we se any slaves engaging in labor? If not, that probably falls under Offscreen Villainy.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jan 12th 2022 at 7:25:08 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#296793: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:31:11 AM

By the way, is everyone fine with my Ezel trim?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#296794: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:32:38 AM

[tdown] to Razorbeard, I don't believe that Rayman portrays the horror of child slavery deeply enough for this trope

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296795: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:35:07 AM

EDIT: I thought honestly with his planet-destroying rapsheet, humorlessness, and actions of mass slavery and pillaging in a really lighthearted franchise would stick out like a sore thumb for easy [tup] but Razorbeard seems to be really contested. I'm going to just let more people by the day decide on what to make of it.

When 43110 mentioned "it is Rayman," as if Rayman is a comedic series, I mentioned Rayman 2 does stick out for being extremely Darker and Edgier and that nothing else is like in the series before it and since. The heinous bar is set really low as a result and pretty much tied to just this game alone.

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 12th 2022 at 7:43:57 AM

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#296796: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:40:22 AM

[up][up][up] I'm fine with the trim

Edited by KingofNightmares on Jan 12th 2022 at 7:40:40 AM

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#296797: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:50:14 AM

About the “planet-destroying rapsheet”, the prior EP mentioned that this was offscreen, All There in the Manual I think, so it can’t really be counted.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#296798: Jan 12th 2022 at 7:53:09 AM

My condolences, Lighty... sad

[tup] Tezz

[tdown] Razorbeard

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#296799: Jan 12th 2022 at 8:06:39 AM

[tdown]Razorbeard

First day of my University

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#296800: Jan 12th 2022 at 8:07:19 AM

[up] Second day of mine.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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