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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#296676: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:36:05 AM

How many victims does this guy fukari have.

He might make it for a nonpowered dude?

Edited by miraculous on Jan 11th 2022 at 10:40:34 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296677: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:41:03 AM

@Kazuya Prota

As a side quest character, there's not much on-screen focus on his victims past a few gullible oafs we're introduced to with Chihaya. This isn't a Palace Ruler, after all. We get a rundown of how many people he's harmed when Chihaya starts privately investigating him, whereupon she states it's "dozens" of people and leads to the discovery of the aforementioned missing cases, runaways, etc. Although the murdering part is only implied when Chihaya ominously expresses how far the rabbit hole goes, his Shadow cheerily admits he's not above people's deaths if they don't obey him.

Ordeaux, I'm trying to find out what this "reason" for Toni is while occupied since it's clearly not remorse.

Also, I'm going to abstain on that whole Dickson conversation. I'm sorry if I seemed to ignore that but it's a big can of worms.

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 11th 2022 at 10:49:07 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#296678: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:48:57 AM

No to the Persona villain.

Guys I think there's enough ambiguity for Dickson's final scene both yes and no votes are legitimate and we can stop with the "You're wrong to think he does/doesn't keep."

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#296679: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:50:19 AM

No to Fukari. There's a particular visceral awfulness lacking here compared to Shido.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#296680: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:51:48 AM

[tdown]Fukari (Way too vague than)

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296681: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:55:21 AM

So far the Cut votes for Dickson far outweigh the Keep votes, so unless there is some massive shift, which seems unlikely, it seems he is remaining cut. Though yeah, thinking about it there is some ambiguity in the scene.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#296682: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:56:14 AM

Today I turn 24. To celebrate my birthday, I want to discuss a fairly recent J-Sploitation movie.

What Is the Work?

Tokyo Living Dead Idol is a 2018 J-sploitation movie that can’t make up its mind over whether it wants to be a dramatic movie about the success of J-pop idols and the depths corporations will go for money, or a wacky horror action comedy about zombies.

The movie’s about Miku Kamiya, lead member of the pop idol group Tokyo 27-ku who gets bitten by a random zombie. Now on the run from several vigilantes and zombie hunters from the Zombie Hunting Association (ZHA), Miku teams up with a detective as she tries to find the cure for her zombification process. But she only has three days to find it, otherwise she’ll be a zombie forever.

Who Is He?

Dr. Shinsuke Kumozawa is a wheelchair-bound Mad Scientist who heads the research of zombies for the Zombie Hunting Association.

What has he done?

Fired from the university he was working at, Kumozawa got a job working with the ZHA in the research and creation of new zombies for them to hunt, as it would lead to an increase in profits. Often performing experiments on infected humans the ZHA send him, Kumozawa uses the organs of the infected to create different breeds of the undead. Accidentally creating a zombie named Alicia whose blood ends up being a cure for the zombie virus, Kumozawa chooses to withhold the cure from the public, as it would mean the ZHA would have no more zombies to hunt.

Creating four special zombies with human-like intelligence, once they revolt against him and start killing security guards, Kumozawa considers it a marvelous achievement, because it shows how intelligent they are. Kumozawa even laughs maniacally at the thought of them not only planning to rule a zombie-filled world, but also killing Alicia and wiping out the cure. By the time our heroes arrive at the scene, Kumozawa had already been killed by the four zombies.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. Kumozawa, unlike the other members of the association, is only in this for the money and research, uncaring about the lives at stake thanks to his experiments.

Heinousness?

While Kumozawa doesn’t appear much (he only shows up in random video diaries, and he’s dead by the time the heroes visit his base), he’s easily the worst of the worst within the association. Kumozawa values experimenting on people and the creations he makes over actually helping people, and while some of his creations are just random results of his scientific curiosity, he’s still all-too proud and accepting of his more dangerous accomplishments. He’s willing to risk the zombification of the entire world just to bask in the glory of his achievements.

Plus, the dude wears an eyepatch. Can't get any more villainous than that.

And yeah, the ZHA are a bunch of crazies, but the chairman, despite thinking those infected should be killed rather than quarantined, is shown to be a genuine Well-Intentioned Extremist. The other members of the association, those who preside over Kumozawa, aren't seen.

And then there’s the four sentient zombies who want to rule the world, but they don’t show up until the third act, and they do jack shit. They fight the main characters while talking about how cool they are, but that's it.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep.

It's Spooky Month!
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#296683: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:57:04 AM

I'm planning on proposing characters on the MB thread soon, but I want to start here because it will be quicker

Battlestar Galactica (2003) is about the remnants of humanity on the run from the robots called Cylons, who destroyed the twelve colonies on which they lived, to find the mysterious thirteenth colony, Earth. Two characters are already listed, but I want to propose two more.

Now, Admiral Helena Cain was discussed and cut many years ago for a very ambiguous redeeming quality. Don't worry, I'm not planning on proposing her unless people are interested. I do, however want to discuss one of her subordinates, who despite only having a few scenes is one of the more disgusting characters on the show.

Who is Alastair Thorne?

Lieutenant Alastair Thorne is an officer on board the Battlestar Pegasus, and designated as the primary Cylon interrogator. When Cain's girlfriend, Gina, was discovered as a Cylon (a Six, to be exact), Thorne was the one who led interrogation on her. How did he do it?

Rape. Lot's and lot's of rape. Not only that, he encouraged other officers to join in too. This ultimately left Gina completely broken.

In the present day, with the Galactica and Pegasus crew meeting up and Cain taking over the military operations at the expense of the rest of the fleet, Thorne enters Galactica with his men in order to interrogate their Cylon prisoner, Sharon (an Eight). Of course, Galactica and Commander Adama did not approve of this visit. Regardless, Thorne and his men immediately begin the process of raping Sharon when Tyrol and Helo rush in to save her. Tyrol throws Thorne against the wall, with his head striking an exposed bolt, killing him instantly.

Redeeming Qualities?

Other officers on the Pegasus seem to respect him heavily, and that ship's XO, Colonel Fisk, claims that he and many other officers owe him their lives. In spite of this, Thorne never has a humanizing moment on screen.

Heinousness?

Here's the tough part: there are a lot of very bad characters in the series. The Cylons nuked twelve planets, with their leader, Cavil raping his own mother and trying to kill rebel Cylons, Cain herself is batshit and has left civilians for dead, Phelan runs a child prostitution ring, and my next candidate, Dr. Robert has discreetly killed many out of racism. But Thorne's actions of repeatedly and brutally raping a woman and almost raping another are still highly disgusting. Not only that, he doesn't have the influence that other antagonists have, so this is all that he is able to do. And yet is is still awful.

Verdict?

Depends on if you think the series falls into Criminal Minds syndrome or not.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jan 11th 2022 at 2:09:31 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296684: Jan 11th 2022 at 10:58:59 AM

[tup] Shinsuke and Alistar.

Happy Birthday Jackie.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 11th 2022 at 7:26:09 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296685: Jan 11th 2022 at 11:17:28 AM

Looking at his character page, Toni has redeeming qualities anyway.

Yes to Kumozawa (and Happy Birthday!).

Thorne...I don't know. He just has one rape (albeit brutal and repeated) and one attempted?

Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#296686: Jan 11th 2022 at 11:29:57 AM

@ACW

I really can't tell if Toni loves his mama or just wants her respect considering how much they argue. He's not going to stoop to killing her, but this is one deeply twisted relationship of a guy silent at the mercy of a complete sociopath that sends hitmen after her own son on a whim.

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#296687: Jan 11th 2022 at 11:31:40 AM

[tup] to Pretoris, Alistar and Shinsuke

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#296688: Jan 11th 2022 at 11:37:43 AM

[tup] Scott and the Puppet.

[tup] The Miller.

[tup] Pretoris.

[tup] Shinsuke.

[tup] Throne.

Edited by Beast on Jan 11th 2022 at 11:38:03 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#296689: Jan 11th 2022 at 11:57:15 AM

[tup]Kumozawa

Happy birthday Jackie.

I'm not sure on Throne. How common is rape in that show? I know Cavil /No. 1 uh rapes his own mother

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#296690: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:14:21 PM

I'm not really sure on Throne here. He's nasty, but he's just one guy while Cain is ordering the rape while Throne is just one participant. Leaning no there.

No to Fukuriya as well. Yes to Kumogawa, however.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 11th 2022 at 12:20:45 PM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#296691: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:31:31 PM

Leaning on a [tdown] on Thorne but yes to Shinsuke

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296692: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:33:40 PM

Thinking about it more [tdown] Throne.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#296693: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:36:32 PM

Yeah uh [tdown]Thorne

Too much of an accessory.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#296694: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:40:41 PM

If there was more that Throne was a serial rapist? Definite yes. As of now, in Battlestar Galactica where a guy is running a pedophile ring and the big bad is a gleeful rapist himself, one rape at the orders of someone else and one attempted...not enough for me

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#296695: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:52:44 PM

[tup] Kumozawa (happy birthday jackie). [tdown] Fukurai and Thorne.
Cut Sora (don't know how I missed that one before).

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#296696: Jan 11th 2022 at 1:25:49 PM

That’s fair. I won’t do Dr. Robert then either, since he would be too overshadowed as well.

Would it be alright if I rewrote the entries already there? They look clunky as they are.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296697: Jan 11th 2022 at 1:32:29 PM

I'm fine with that. They DO look a bit clunky.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#296698: Jan 11th 2022 at 1:59:40 PM

Phelan's entry includes maybe too many quotes.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296699: Jan 11th 2022 at 2:01:43 PM

The pending stuff. Remember, I'd like to get League of Legends and Miami Vice finalized by the end of the month:

If I don't procrastinate, I should have 2 in the next several days from Matthew Reilly (plus 2 maybes I'm letting Lighty handle if he wants, as well as a 3rd from a stand-alone).

Edited by ACW on Jan 11th 2022 at 5:01:55 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#296700: Jan 11th 2022 at 2:16:31 PM

Alright then. Here's before:

  • Battlestar Galactica (2003):
    • John Cavil aka Number One is the de facto leader of the Cylons and the first model of the Significant Eight made by the Final Five, the progenitors of the race. He proves to be a hateful being angered by his creators' decision to give him a human body. He kills his brother Daniel out of jealousy, wiping out the line. He wipes the minds of his five parents and reprograms his siblings to forget about them. Then he puts the Final Five on human worlds to witness the genocide he initiates against the Twelve Colonies and hunts down the surviving humans to spite his parents and to make them realize they should love him as the "prince of the universe" he fancies himself as. Despite professing to want revenge for the humans' enslavement of the Centurions, he promptly does the same thing. He uses a Scarpia Ultimatum to rape his mother and tortures and mutilates his father. During his time in the human fleet Cavil also killed a young orphan boy just because they were becoming friends, and at the end of the series tries to dissect little Hera Agathon to uncover the secret to Cylon procreation. He permanently boxes the Threes over the other Cylons' objections. When half of his brethren break with him over his enslavement of the Centurions and Raiders, he promptly wipes out the Sixes, Twos, and Eights, leaving only a handful alive. While John claims he wants to be a robot more than anything, he willfully succumbs to the lowest human instincts he so hates: vengeance, lust, and sadism.
    • "Black Market": Phelan, the ex-military mercenary turned crime lord, runs the titular market and garrotes anyone who threatens his supremacy. When Apollo investigates the death of one of Phelan's competitors, the man pays him a visit, abducting the Hooker with a Heart of Gold Apollo had been seeing regularly and taking her daughter, warning Apollo that "I hear any more talk about Fisk I'm gonna send your whore back to you piece by piece, and then I'm gonna start on the little girl." As if that's not enough, in his headquarters he keeps a bunch of children locked in a cell. When Apollo confronts him and asks about that, he claims that some people are "demanding". When Apollo demands the kid back, Phelan replies, "Sorry, the little girl's been paid for. No refunds."

After:

  • Battlestar Galactica (2003):
    • (John) Cavil aka Number One is the de facto leader of the Cylons and the first model of the Significant Eight made by the Final Five, the progenitors of the race. Angered by his creators' decision to give him a human body, he kills his brother Daniel out of jealousy, wiping out the line before wiping the minds of his five parents and placing them on the Twelve Colonies. Cavil then initiates a nuclear holocaust against the human worlds, killing most of humanity, and then afterwards spearheads the campaign to kill the survivors, killing a young orphan boy just because they were becoming friends. When his siblings vote for peace with humanity, he perverts it by enslaving them on New Caprica, using a Scarpia Ultimatum to rape his mother, Ellen Tigh, while torturing and mutilating his father, Saul Tigh. As information on the Final Five is discovered, Cavil reacts by permanently boxing the Threes and lobotomizing the Raiders, wiping out the Sixes, Twos, and Eights when they object, leaving only a handful alive. When the Resurrection Hub is destroyed, Cavil kidnaps and tries to dissect little Hera Agathon to uncover the secret to Cylon resurrection. While John claims he wants to be a robot more than anything, he willfully succumbs to the lowest human instincts he so hates: vengeance, lust, and sadism.
    • "Black Market": Phelan, the ex-military mercenary turned crime lord, runs the titular market which includes a child prostitution ring. Having Jack Fisk murdered for trying get more compensation, when investigated by Lee Adama, Phelan kidnaps Shevan and her daughter Paya. Selling the latter into the ring, Phelan threatens to cut up the former in an attempt to get Lee to back down.

[down] See how it looks.

[down][down] I just removed the title all together.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jan 11th 2022 at 9:41:36 AM


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