During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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I know, But I feel those possible redeeming traits are countered by the very personal nature of his actions like his open sadism towards the protagonist
to the Miller and Pretoris.
I'm also giving a
to cutting Dickson. As said before, we don't give this label to 99% Monsters.
Having played both the OG and the Definitive version of Xenoblade, I'm tentatively going to say "keep" Dickson. That final scene should give me mixed feelings, but he's such a supremely smug dick since the reveal, I can't shake the interpretations of seeing Shulk as an extension of his own pride.
Edited by erazor0707 on Jan 11th 2022 at 11:06:07 AM
Work
Yuichi Fukurai of Persona 5
Yuichi is the chairman of the ADP (Assembly of the Divine Power), a scam cult made to swindle money out of troubled people. After discovering Chihaya Mifune in the gutters, Yuichi discovers her psychic abilities are the real deal and recruits her into his cult to better exploit people. Yuichi psychologically controls Chihaya by always reminding her he gave her life and purpose, thus Chihaya feels obliged to obey him despite knowing something is shady. Chihaya through her fortune-telling scams people out of their money before sending them off to join Yuichi's cult once they trust her enough. There, Yuichi indoctrinates his new followers into ingesting a mind-destroying drug that enslaves them to Yuichi's will. Yuichi then forces his enslaved followers to hand him all the money they can muster, caring little to none for their fates if they can no longer do so. As documented, Yuichi's organization is behind dozens of missing person cases, bizarre incidents of family runaways, and even murders.
Redeeming Qualities
His Freudian Excuse isn't too particularly sympathetic. He states he came from the countryside into the city like Chihaya and was once scammed out of his money by false advertisers. The police simply mocked Yuichi for being that gullible and didn't help him. From then on, Yuichi was determined to be the one that terrorizes others and to never be a victim again.
Shadows and redeeming characteristics, especially only after they're beaten, are complicated examples of sympathetic qualities because they possibly can't speak for the real person. It's revealed after Yuichi's Shadow is defeated that he is in fact a long-lost friend of Chihaya and knew who she was deep down. It issues an apology to her for his abuse just before fading.
Heinous Standard
Like most villains in Persona 5, Yuichi is nothing compared to Shido. But the scope of his atrocities makes him worse than every other Mementos target, by far, most of whom are focused on individuals. His direct actions of conspiracy and large-scale organization may even make him more heinous than some of the Palace Rulers like Okumura, Madarame, and even Kaneshiro, the latter of whom he bears a close resemblance to with his money-grubbing scheme. But Kaneshiro was a slimy mob boss who was simply blackmailing people, not mind raping people into his slaves nor running a cult dedicated to doing so.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 11th 2022 at 9:17:21 AM
Found this unapproved CM entry at .hack//SIGN.
- Complete Monster: Morganna is manipulative, abusive, and completely sociopathic, with actions like making Tsukasa think they're his dead mother, giving him a "guardian" capable of putting anyone into a slight coma with amnesia when they do wake up, and a scene that is disturbingly evocative of sexual abuse. And this is all before releasing the 8 Phases.
Not really familliar with Persona 5 or the franchise as a whole but I would like to point out that from the same game we have PE Coach Suguru Kamoshida who doesn't kill anyone but is a serial rapist and is abusive to his students even breaking the leg of one of them.
If this guy can qualify despite not killing anyone, I think Fukurai also has a chance since the EP mentioned that he uses a mind-destroying drug and is behind dozens of people going missing and even murders.
However, I would like a bit more explanation about this part:
I don't really understand what this means and this sounds potentially mitigating.
Edited by WatTambor on Jan 11th 2022 at 8:36:19 PM
Yeah, about Shadows...that's complicated, multi-layered, and subject to interpretation IMO.
The gist of Shadows and redeeming qualities is they might spill the beans on a Freudian Excuse or Hidden Depths, but if it's only after they're beaten and not something like with Mishima who can be reasoned with without a fight, it can be vague. For example, Kamoshida's Shadow is repentant and very pitiable when it's defeated, but nothing about it can be spoken for the real deal who has to be brainwashed to redeem himself. So when people are considering Yuichi here, I doubt they're looking at the Freudian Excuse and Shadow's remorse and more considering the magnitude of his crimes relative to the bar Kamoshida and Shido have set. Since Yuichi showed no remorse or conflicted feelings at all in person.
Also, chiming in on what you mentioned: despite not having killed anyone, Kamoshida is 101% monster for various reasons.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 11th 2022 at 9:53:02 AM
So Final Space is getting a VR game
if anyone is interested in checking for a potential CM there.
I am still not super confident Fukurai meets the heinous standard. Remember he doesn't just have to compete with the Coach and the other guy he also has to compete with all the other human villains in the franchise, being a Serial Rapist is a bit of a more unique niche than just a guy who makes a bunch of people disappear with nothing else.
if that's the case, then yeah he flunks. I thought the heinous standard was relative to the story in question if it's not a direct continuation of anything. If we're talking, at least Persona series minimum and not the broader SMT-verse, then it'll be hard to top the many omnicidal maniacs and cult members as it is.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 11th 2022 at 9:58:39 AM
No to Fukurai.
Someone added this to C Ms By Actor A To F
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't, we downvote this guy. Because it's also on the director and troper pages as well.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadand on another interesting small note browsing through the archives: I noticed the tropers here are rather fond of Donald Love as a premiere example of a monster. As someone who is only familiar with the character's worst antics by word of mouth, I did some reading out of curiosity and was wondering what Toni Cipriani is supposed to be.
The dude carries out those heinous acts on Love's entries with only deadpan snark, I previously thought it was Love doing that himself. Most horrifyingly, I saw him chop up a man with an ax like a Serial Killer in a case of extreme Disproportionate Retribution and feed him to human beings. Does this guy have any redeeming qualities? The bombing of Fort Staunton alone puts Trevor Philips to shame.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 11th 2022 at 10:33:45 AM
Fukarai...how much focus is given to the missing people?
Like, its Persona 5 and we're talking about a guy without supernatural powers.
Meh,
Fukarai

Cut Dickson (tentative) and Sora.