During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
If it's allowed, I want to bring these up for SRMTHFG and SWCTW. I think the latter should indeed stay, because despite Ordeaux's claim of it having to go because it's based on an "unrelated" book, many of Disney's movies are based on pre-existing media, mostly fairly tales and books, so you could say that they are based on "unrelated" media too, so shouldn't they go too? Unless that isn't what he means, then if that's the case, what does he mean? For Robot Monkey, if it was primarily something Disney made, I mean like, if they made the most of it compared to the other companies involved, it could stay. Are the other companies he means Jetix Animation Concepts and The Answer Studio? I think Answer just animated the show, while JAC was a joint-venture between DTA and Jetix Europe for 3 shows (the others being Get Ed, which already has a keeper and is on the Disney page, and Yin Yang Yo!) made by the main Disney Television Animation studio for the Jetix block.
Edited by HeavyWeaponsPie on Jan 7th 2022 at 4:05:59 AM
AThe issue with using that idea for Something Wicked This Way Comes is that the other Disney stuff based on pre-existing fairy tales has some sort of connecting threat in the form of the Disney Animated Canon, and most of them have been spun off into their own franchise separate from what they were based on, while Something Wicked This Way Comes does not have that. When it comes to Super Robot Monkey I don't really know on that one.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 7th 2022 at 4:12:01 AM
I see. But for Robot Monkey, I think you should have done research on the companies involved (or the production of the show as well) before suggesting it's movement to the main WA page. But if it's clear it's indeed a Disney show, it should stay where it was.
Edited by HeavyWeaponsPie on Jan 7th 2022 at 4:14:37 AM
AYes to Lighty's and let me seriously emphasize with this call to uproot the Disney stuff... all I care about is that it never has to be done again: this alone is a mess and no one took issue with it until Ordeaux recently called for the change. If it has to be done it's gotta be a one time thing because it's taking up a huge amount of debate just to decide if a handful of entries should stay or go.
Myself, Scraggle, Jackie, Yobaby, miraculous, Bullman and Lighty all voted to move the Film stuff that ended up moved off the page.
futuremoviewriter was the only one willing to keep it.
For Super Robot Monkey initially, it was just me voting to remove it but I switched back and Heavy wants to move it back.
The consensus is to remove the Films except for Roger Rabbit and Jungle Cruise and now to keep Super Robot Monkey. So I guess that is what we will be doing.
So, I got one more from a gothic horror novel...
What's the work?
Six Rooms is a novel by Gemma Amor. Welcome to Sunshire Chateau. Beautiful, sunny place. Lovely, really...so well preserved! And there are tours offered, isn't that nice? But...follow the rules. Certainly don't touch what isn't yours...
After all, the ghosts don't like it when you touch what belongs to them...
Our CM? Charles Lester III
Who is Charles Lester IIII?
With flashbacks going back about a century, Charles Lester III is a wealthy man and hugely unpleasant...after issues involving scandal from a wealthy local family and their daughter Rose, Charles offers to marry her for the massive fortune and takes control of all her money. Charles is a dick and a nasty businessman who, put flatly, ignores and neglects his wife, lords over everyone about him and is just a general asshole to everybody.
Now, the novel is told in...not exactly chronological order, but piecing everything together...well, everything goes to hell one night. One of the only people in Charles' employ that he opens up to is his valet, who's actually his half-brother. Now, Charles is pretty sure the guy is skimming a bit off the top and traps him one night...turns out he's wearing Charles' best set of cufflinks and a furious Charles accosts him and beats him savagely to death.
Then he notices the housekeeper walked in and saw...so he beats her down as well and hides the bodies in the gatehouse. The house itself is really well designed with lots of odd passages, and the housekeeper, Anna? Is still alive. He leaves her sealed up to sufer and suffocate.
Then the groundskeeper saw. Charles tries to bribe him because it's been a long fucking night and he's tired, but the guy also wants the cufflinks. Charles murders the shit out of him as well and dumps the body.
The scullery maid, Isabelle, picks a time shortly after to come talk with Charles who does not want to talk. Poor Isabelle needs help. She's beside herself and...turns out she's pregnant, because Charles drunkenly raped her not long ago and she's terrified.
Charles finds it just hilarious she had to tell him this night of all nights, grabs a doorstopper and bashes her skull in with it, realizing he's actually just enjoying all this.
Soon he decides he needs to kill Rose, his wife as well...even though she's pregnant with his heir. However, Rose by this point realizes something is up and it's also revealed she and the Valet were lovers...
And she's armed. She shoots Charles in the knee and reveals she took back some of her money to bribe the architect, having some secret passages installed...she opens one and dumps Charles down, leaving him to die slowly there, forgotten to starve.
Charles does...and becomes a lost ghost, trapped in his own death to relive the night over and over and over for eternity, which unfortunately makes him very dangerous to those who come through the house and so much as touch his cuff links....the Valet is the tour guide, Anna is pretty well adjusted by contrast. Poor Isabelle is still trapped in her own death, a suffering soul, but the ending indicates there's some hope in her finding peace.
Charles? Never will.
Mitigating issues?
Quality over quantity, I'd argue. But holy shit, do you hate this guy. A bodycount of five and one rape is pushing the baseline, IMO, but Charles is so unbelievably loathsome, one victim and the last attempted are pregnant women and one is his own brother.
Also, it's built up that the cuff links have some emotional importance to him. Turns out they were just a gift from a business partner. He just cares they're his. He worked for them and how dare anyone touch them. Charles is viciously elitist and the only time he regrets anything is to fear that the child in Rose is the Valet's and in killing Isabelle he murdered his "true heir" as well...
But it's spelled out Charles Lester III is NOT capable of real love or affection. He's just a guy who one night gets mad and covers up a murder by trying to kill everything in the vicinity.
Conclusion?
I'd say keep the bastard.

Teen Idol & Voleth
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!