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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296076: Jan 6th 2022 at 11:51:46 AM

Bullman: Got it. Any other character pages that need to go to the page?

Also, found this under Dissidia Final Fantasy: Opera Omnia, but not at the CM page:

  • The Emperor is another villain who has absolutely no redeeming qualities about him, and unlike even Kefka has no Freudian Excuse for his abhorrant behavior; he wants to subjugate the world because he literally believes it is his divine birthright to do so. He has no empathy for anyone and believes morality is beneath him, some of the other adventurers even refer to him as "generically evil", although say that arguably makes him even more dangerous since there is no reasoning with someone like thatnote . Also, similar to Kefka The Emperor is one of the few villains the party wants to refuse to even work with; Firion wants nothing to do with The Emperor's Dimensional Coordinates even to simply keep track of his foe, eventually he has to be convinced to accept them because The Emperor purposely left them near a flock of chocobos, basically blackmailing the heroes with the birds' safety.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#296077: Jan 6th 2022 at 11:52:35 AM

What does he even do?

The entry doesn't say.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#296078: Jan 6th 2022 at 11:56:06 AM

[up][up] Jesus, I can only imagine how bad some entries were in the days before this cleanup thread.

[tup] to Strange

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#296079: Jan 6th 2022 at 11:59:04 AM

ACW:No that is all there is for now.

What is that Emperor entry even trying to say? It doesn't mention what he even does.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296080: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:02:58 PM

Actually, there was one: Ardyn Izunia is mentioned in Bahamut's entry.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296081: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:04:02 PM

Man, that is quite a poorly done writeup.

Anyway since the consensus was to move, I moved all the Disney films back to the original films page in the respective alphabetical one, the only exception was Dick Tracy which already has its own page. There aren't enough films for its own folder though so I had to move the two remaining films to the "Other" section.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 6th 2022 at 12:04:17 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296082: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:09:15 PM

Do we wanna add "Other live-action films made with Disney's involvement can be found here." or something similar?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296083: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:11:15 PM

Sure and while we are at it we could also add Star Wars and the MCU to that.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#296085: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:16:37 PM

Here is my personal test for if we can count it as Disney. Is it on Disney plus, in Disney Infinity, or Kingdm Hearts. As in does Disney acknowledge it as part of their brand. Though remove stuff like Star Wars, Marvel, or Indiana Jones from that test.

So that still leaves The Lone Ranger which is on Disney Plus and was in Disney Infinity.

Again, that is just my suggestion how to deal with it.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 6th 2022 at 2:17:29 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296086: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:18:16 PM

Oh, I did not know that about Lone Ranger, that makes me reconsider removing it a bit, the issue though is that it is technically a co-production and is not a Disney franchise but a really old franchise where that one film adaptation is made with Disney's involvement.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296087: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:18:54 PM

Though should Indy be added to the list along with Star Wars and MCU (Disney owns Indy?)?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#296088: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:20:07 PM

Saying no there.

I think the most basic requirement is some connection to actual Disney properties

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296089: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:20:14 PM

Yeah Disney owns Indy but the issue is I don't think any of the current keepers were created while Disney owned the franchise.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296090: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:21:22 PM

Ah, that makes sense. As opposed to the latest Star Wars films and the MCU.

Though maybe Dick Tracy SHOULD be added?

Edited by ACW on Jan 6th 2022 at 3:22:07 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#296091: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:22:48 PM

Yeah, I think coming from Disney studios as an original property is what's required, like Jungle Cruise and Pirates being obvious. Not like if someone put up the shark from Jaws because Universal has a Jaws ride (please nobody propose the shark from Jaws, he had loved ones)

Saying no to Dick Tracy, too. Disney's involvement aside, Tracy began life as a Newspaper strip and had serials, movies and more well before that.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 6th 2022 at 12:23:30 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#296092: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:23:03 PM

Yeah. Disney bought Indy along with Star Wars when they bought Lucasfilms. They are making the next film. I don't think we need to link it to the page as now of them were made by Disney.

Though wait I made a mistake the Lone Ranger is not Disney plus because it's on Stars so yeah never mind there. Though it was still on Disney Infinity and made by Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures. But like said a co-production. So, n need to be there.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 6th 2022 at 2:27:53 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296093: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:28:54 PM

I don't see why we should keep Dick Tracy especially since we already have a page for the franchise that can store the film.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#296094: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:32:51 PM

My limit would be Once Upon a Time. Not only is it on Disney Plus but includes versions of characters based on the Disney Animated Canon.

Dick Tracy should not be on the page for reasons stated.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 6th 2022 at 2:36:49 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#296095: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:35:11 PM

[tup] for the terrorists, the Shepard, Bourbon, Lao Li (tentative), Rasputin, Halliwell, Cowley, and Strange.

[tdown] for Kliff, Andrew, Smith, and the Priest (tentative).

Cut Mongol.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#296096: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:38:47 PM

When it comes to the Animated Shows, they should all be fine as they all are associated with the company originated from them and some have even had crossovers with the Animated Canon and each other. The novels and the manga are all based on Animated Canon properties the Comics are Disney stuff, Haunted Mansion is a ride from the studio, Kingdom Hearts is Kingdom Hearts and the other two are Animated Canon adaptations.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#296097: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:40:10 PM

I meant Dick Tracy as a link, like for Star Wars and the MCU.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#296099: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:42:52 PM

Live Action Tv is fine as well. One is from the Disney XD channel and Once Upon a Time like I said is based on the Animated Cann (i.e. including characters made by Disney Specifically like Facilier or Elsa along with ones specifically based on the Disney versions).

Seems like the main problem was the Live Action films.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 6th 2022 at 2:43:35 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#296100: Jan 6th 2022 at 12:43:03 PM

Look. Disney is a gigantic fucking conglomerate. They are involved in, produce, distirute etc. a not inconsiderable chunk of stuff on the market now. Let's not miss the forest for the trees. Keep it to the animated canon and stuff based on original Disney properties.


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