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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#295776: Jan 4th 2022 at 10:44:12 AM

Special thanks to Lighty and Scrags for letting me join them on their trip through Miami Vice. Cause now, we'll be discussing another candidate from the series.

What Is the Work?

The episode we’ll be discussing is Season 3’s “Baby Blues”. Here, Crockett and Tubbs ambush a plane supposedly containing drugs. But what they find onboard isn’t drugs, but instead dozens of babies. Also inside is Maria Escobar, a mother who stowed away on the plane in order to find her kidnapped son.

Crockett and Tubbs find that they’ve stumbled upon a baby trafficking operation, and attempt to bring it down.

Who Is He?

Howard Famiglia is a rich, respected, if sleazy, adoption lawyer who secretly trafficks Columbian babies to America and illegally sells them into adoption.

What has he done?

Having his men rob poor Columbian women of their babies just to sell them, with over hundreds of babies trafficked to the United States, Howard doesn’t even care when some of the babies end up dying during the plane trip to Miami (referring to that as a “spoilage factor”). Howard is also shown to be a rather snide asshole, willing to belittle people, take advantage of his reputation to do whatever he wants, and attempt to use his wealth to shut down the case.

When Crockett and Tubs try to stop his operation, Howard threatens the adoptive families (one of the dads played by a young Stanley Tucci) with having their babies taken from them if they dare testify against him, and has his three cohorts killed to cover his tracks. When Howard attempts to personally kill a wounded Maria in a hospital, he tries to murder her through an air vent, but ends up walking into a trap set up by Crockett and Tubs, and is shot while trying to crawl out of the vent.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. While Famiglia claims that he’s just giving anxious adoptive parents what they want, all he really cares about is the money he’ll get from it all, uncaring about the lives he’s risked, ruined, and taken from his actions. The fact that he’s willing to tear his own customers’ families apart also shows how little he cares for his customers.

Heinousness?

Baby trafficking is very unique to the series, and the fact that Famiglia is so blasé over some of the babies actually dying under his care also pushes him higher on the monster scale.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep.

It's Spooky Month!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#295777: Jan 4th 2022 at 10:48:40 AM

[tup] Howard, oh great another baby trafficker.

CrystallicWolf108 The Controversial Guy Since: Sep, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Controversial Guy
#295778: Jan 4th 2022 at 10:51:42 AM

[tup] Howard. Human Traffickers are scum of the earth, let alone baby traffickers!

Also [tup] to the Director too.

Edited by CrystallicWolf108 on Jan 4th 2022 at 6:52:51 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#295781: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:04:34 AM

[tup]Howard

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#295782: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:05:08 AM

Yes to Famiglia. Gotta love this episode where a traumatized young Latina mother giving up her child to the wealthy white people after said kid was stolen from her is seen as the "hard but right move."

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#295783: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:08:31 AM

The thing is maybe, MAYBE, the women gave up their babies in hopes of giving them a better life, then MAYBE that could MAYBE be mitigating, MAYBE. But seeing as how he apparently out-and-out kidnaps them? Yeah, no.

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#295784: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:14:51 AM

[tup] Howard.

Just an empty void…
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#295785: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:32:13 AM

BTW guys, please keep an eye out for any good quotes/images for the Vice page.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#295787: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:43:32 AM

Y Es to Howard Famiglia. How many Miami Vice Cms do we have?

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#295788: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:45:18 AM

Now that the ruled have toned down regarding characterization and moral agency, it's time for me to discuss my next candidate, known as SCP-973-2.

For this proposal, I will refer to him as "Smokey", so as to make it easier for you guys to understand.

What is the Work?

The SCP Mythos is a fictional setting from a website describing an organization known as the SCP Foundation, which captures various anomalies to prevent them from being a threat to our world, known as SCPs. They are labeled as Safe, Euclid, or Keter.

Who is the Candidate and What has he Done?

SCP-973-2, or should I say "Smokey", is a Euclid-class SCP and bizarre figure resembling a police cop from the 1970s, but his true origins are yet to be discovered. He is one of the two entities that make up SCP-973, the other being his police cruiser SCP-973-1. In addition to that, he is incredibly sadistic.

Smokey manifests in the night on a 37-mile stretch on an unknown highway in the United States, which is constantly monitored by satellites, and he is believed to manifest between 10:00 PM and 4:00 AM. He appears any time another vehicle is on this stretch of highway at a certain speed; while the casual speed is 55 mph, it is possible for it to be anywhere between 35 mph and 70 mph, and there have been no patterns that were found.

By this point, Smokey will chase the drivers at an intense speed with the police sirens flashing, at around 0.2 mph. He then hacks into the vehicle's radio and repeats the same message over and over and over, telling them to "run". However, even if the vehicle driver does try to outrun him instead of pulling over, Smokey will catch up to them anyway between 1 and 6 minutes. In some cases, he even causes serious damage to the cars.

The driver is then at his mercy after having reached approximately 4 mph, whereas Smokey will kill them in a gruesome fashion. He has done this to 34 people, with methods including evisceration and even rape. In three cases, a person's body was disfigured to the point they couldn't be recognized. Five survivors, which have gone through mental trauma due to their experiences with Smokey, were found by the SCP Foundation and subsequently detained by them.

The SCP Foundation has tried to stop Smokey several times. The first attempt was blowing up the section of the highway where he manifested, but that proved to be a negative because he simply moved to another location where he was doing the same thing. The next attempt was to capture him, but he killed 9 SCP agents and coincidentally appeared nine days after that. As Smokey was manifesting more and more often in more and more areas, the Foundation has caught up with it in order to capture him.

Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

While he has no tragic backstory nor redeeming qualities to speak of, the real concern is whether or not he has an actual characterization, which was the reason he was shot down the last two times he was proposed.

However, based on the new rules regarding this, I would say he does. Smokey shows himself to have the characterization of a persistent sadist, as when he tells the driver to "run", it's followed by "[EXPLETIVE DELETED]", and he makes sure to catch up with the driver's vehicle even if they try to outrun him as fast as possible, making this quote more of a taunt since he's basically telling the driver that they can't escape him. This is when he kills the poor driver in a brutal way, and that even includes rape, and considering that he does this with no distinguishable pattern, it can easily be referred that he's just doing this for his own enjoyment.

Another thing that might be a bit of a concern is his moral agency, as it's very likely he's not human; one SCP agent noted that he changed his appearance to what looks like red eyes and having a mouth that's just a hole with no teeth nor tongue, so it's unclear as to what he really is. However, that doesn't prove he has no moral agency, and based on his characterization, as shown above, it's more than likely he takes sadistic delight in his actions.

Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?

When I say that the SCP Mythos has an extremely high heinous standard, I'm not kidding. It has a huge heinous standard as it's filled with anomalous entities that do horrific things to people. However, we can't compare Smokey to, say, godlike beings such as the Scarlet King, or Jeser, since they have higher resources than him. Smokey doesn't have much besides a police car and sirens, but he makes up for it because he has a unique way of killing people: chasing them down on a highway, saying "run" while at the same time making sure they can't escape and then using brutal methods (even rape) to kill them, at some instances even traumatizing them. He's killed at least 34 passengers on the road, and an additional 9 agents working for the SCP Foundation. All in all, he has at least 43 murders.

Final Verdict?

After the third proposal for this character, I would say that he finally qualifies as a CM based on the new information.

Just an empty void…
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#295791: Jan 4th 2022 at 11:58:04 AM

[tup] to Howard Famiglia.

Um I'll abstain on Smokey, sounds heinous enough but I'm weary if they demonstrate enough personality consider how little we know about them.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#295792: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:04:22 PM

Do we not learn anything about this thing. As I'm not sure I'm comfortable up voting mysterious monster who we know nothing about and barely speaks.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#295793: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:09:36 PM

[tup] to Howard.

Going with a [tdown] on Smokey. Some Humanoid Abomination saying "run" to his victims isn't exactly bursting with character, and IIRC there's no supplemental material to help explain what he is like the other candidates.

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#295794: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:12:48 PM

There isn't, which was something I was a bit worried about myself. Have we previously upvoted any candidates with a mysterious origin and not very much lines?

Edited by Misry6 on Jan 4th 2022 at 12:32:00 PM

Just an empty void…
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#295795: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:31:40 PM

Well, kinda...we DO have the Entity, but its history of manipulation and corruption is made pretty damn clear.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#295796: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:33:10 PM

He gets way more than just a couple of mocking his victims.

As in actual conversations and backstory.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#295797: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:37:54 PM

Yes; that makes sense, so I'll have to abstain on this proposal because it seems as if SCP-973-2's sadism is more implied than confirmed, making him a bit of a Generic Doomsday Villain. After all, I'm still learning more about our criteria when I get things wrong, and I've only been on this site for around two months. However, I could go either way given he chases the target down and kills them even if the target does exactly what he wants and has killed 34 people at different times, making him akin to some sort of Serial Killer presumably For the Evulz, but still not sure about it now.

Edited by Misry6 on Jan 4th 2022 at 12:44:23 PM

Just an empty void…
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#295798: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:38:09 PM

[up][up] Yeah, but do we find out much about its origin? It's been YEARS since I saw the series.

Edited by ACW on Jan 4th 2022 at 3:38:17 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#295799: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:54:57 PM

Going with a no on Smokey.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#295800: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:56:01 PM

Unfortunate [tdown] to Smokey


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