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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#294751: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:49:14 PM

Atalon's already up, IIRC.

Did Boneyard want to destroy the Earth, or did he only want to take it over? I remember the latter.

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 26th 2021 at 12:49:51 PM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#294752: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:51:23 PM

Wait he is? Also with Boneyard I know the effects of him using the AI was stated it'll destroy the Earth, and he said he wants to rule the entire dimension... you know I might have to rewatch the final episode to make sure I got that info correct if he was aware or just didn't care

Edit: Well holy crap Atalon is already up, my bad tongue

Edited by Powermaster201 on Dec 26th 2021 at 2:54:12 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#294753: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:53:48 PM

Checking Western Animation yeah he is. Though I am wondering if the show is an adaptation of The Ultraverse why isn't it on the page?

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 26th 2021 at 11:54:07 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#294754: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:55:58 PM

Atalon indeed sounds like such an easy Keep that he's already up! [lol] Yes to Swarm and Hellyn

Now then, here's one I shrugged off a couple years ago, but thanks to recent rulings I think will help just fine:

What's the work?

You Were Never Really Here is a 2013—extended in 2018—novella by Jonathan Ames, turned into a 2017 drama-thriller starring Joaquin Phoenix and directed by Lynne Ramsay....Joaquin plays Joe, a traumatized, but supremely badass soldier who spends his free time taking care of his elderly mother. His main job? Hunting down sex trafficked women and children and rescuing them from their fates for high-paying clients, using his signature weapon of a hammer to tear bloody destruction through anyone standing in his way.

Now, I'm proposing two characters technically, one from the novel and one from the film, but they both fill nearly the exact same role, so I'm knocking them out in one proposal that will be a pretty short one given the circumstances.

Who are Novelli and Governor Williams? What have they done?

In the novella, "the boss" Novelli is a powerful crime lord. In the film, Governor Williams is a Villain with Good Publicity. Both of them, however? Are vile pedophiles who head up an entire sex ring in their respective stories, "trading" young girls across the market to their fellow despicable friends and fiends.

  • Firstly, the novella: When Senator Votto desired funding and political power, he approached Novelli due to his ties with Votto's late father, requesting assistance in his campaigning for political power. Novelli agreed to help under one condition: Votto hands over his young daughter Lisa to Novelli to use in his sex trafficking ring. Novelli has an ulterior motive for this: he hated Votto's father despite their partnership, and so orchestrated this deal simply to spite him from beyond the grave by "making his grandchild a whore, who Novelli would have first." The cowardly, spineless Votto agrees, and Novelli kidnaps Lisa, raping her before handing her off to one of his brothels for regular work. When Votto's wife discovered the truth, Novelli had her killed to silence her, and in the present, when Joe begins hunting for Lisa, Novelli sends his goons to kill Joe and his associates, resulting in the deaths of not only his closest partner and a teenage boy, but his elderly mother, as well. The novella ends with Joe finding Votto, torturing the truth out of him, then brutally killing him and setting a target on Novelli as his next kill, so as to rescue Lisa.

  • In the film, the same setup happens: Votto needs political power, and so hands his daughter Nina off to Governor Williams for the disgusting pedophile to use as his "favorite" in his massive sex trafficking ring. Votto's wife was later found dead in what was ruled a "suicide", and when Joe manages to rescue Nina from a brothel, Williams sends his men to track down Joe and kidnap Nina back. This leads to an innocent hotel clerk being shot dead just for seeing Nina, Joe's friend being tortured to death, one of his associate's being slain alongside the man's teen son, and Joe's own mother shot dead. After a guilt-ridden Votto kills himself for handing Nina off, Williams has Nina brought to his mansion—where Williams is shown to caress and sniff a variety of pictures of children, heavily implied to be other victims of his by the looks on their faces—ready to continue asserting her as his "favorite". Joe tears his way into Williams's mansion, killing all in his path until finding Williams...who has already been killed, his throat slashed by Nina before he could lay another hand on her.

Mitigating features?

Nothing remotely, Novelli is referred to in the novella explicitly as a "sociopath: The source of his power", and Williams is bottom of the barrel degeneracy. Neither are brimming with character—Williams in particular has no proper dialogue except campaign speeches and barely two scenes—but the presence of them both is felt heavily through the stories, and what we do get of Williams involves him caressing photos of children, creeping on Nina, and toying with a dollhouse, so he's passing the characterization bar.

Heinousness?

Both disgusting pedophiles who run massive trafficking rings and order the deaths of several people connected to Joe and Votto, including a teenager and Joe's own elderly mother.

Final Verdict?

Easy yeps to 'em both, I'll give them each a write-up since their names and specific details are different enough to warrant it.

Edited by Ravok on Dec 27th 2021 at 12:02:42 PM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#294755: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:56:14 PM

[up][up] I checked that page a dozen times too, I don't know how I missed that [lol]

Guess I'll drop my other characters from that show for likeness of why they weren't brought up unless I'm good.

Also [tup] to Novelli and Governor Williams.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Dec 27th 2021 at 3:03:34 PM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#294756: Dec 27th 2021 at 12:13:24 AM

Having seen the movie when it came out, [tup] Novelli and Governor Williams.

And a yes to Atalon despite the fact that I was the original proposer.

It's Spooky Month!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#294757: Dec 27th 2021 at 12:46:11 AM

[tup] Novelli and Williams. Keep FANG.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#294758: Dec 27th 2021 at 1:23:57 AM

[tup]Novelli and Governor Williams

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#294759: Dec 27th 2021 at 1:43:15 AM

[tup] Bear, Jorge, Swarm, Hellyn, Novelli and Williams

Keep FANG

Switching to keep Rikako

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#294760: Dec 27th 2021 at 2:04:29 AM

Yes to Ravok's.

I've moved Atalon to Ultraverse.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#294761: Dec 27th 2021 at 2:42:26 AM

[tup] Novelli and Williams

Memnon writeup

Memnon is the ruthless king of an invading horde of warriors from the east. Kidnapping the sorceress Cassandra when she was young, Memnon develops an unhealthy obsession with her, only refraining from making a move to her because it would take her foreseeing abilities away. Using Cassandra's ability, Memnon leads a brutal campaign across numerous settlements, burning them and slaughtering all within them, even if they surrendered. When Mathayus attempts to assassinate Cassandra, Memnon has his men hold him down while he slits his brother's throat and leaves Mathayus to be eaten alive by killer ants. When Mathayus escapes with Cassandra from Memnon's keep, Memnon has his top enforcer Thorak use a poisoned arrow to painfully kill Mathayus and bring Cassandra back to him. Memnon then plans to send a raiding party to wipe out the remaining members of the tribes that hadn't submitted to his rule and claim Cassandra for himself.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#294762: Dec 27th 2021 at 3:17:38 AM

Memnon's waiting until Lighty does his.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#294763: Dec 27th 2021 at 4:19:54 AM

[tup] to Novelli and Governor Williams.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#294764: Dec 27th 2021 at 4:30:22 AM

Eh, screw it:

  • First film: Memnon is the ruthless king of an invading horde of warriors from the east. Kidnapping the sorceress Cassandra when she was young, Memnon develops an unhealthy obsession with her, only refraining from making a move to her because it would take her foreseeing abilities away. Using Cassandra's ability, Memnon leads a brutal campaign across numerous settlements, burning them and slaughtering all within them, even if they surrendered. When Mathayus attempts to assassinate Cassandra, Memnon has his men hold him down while he slits Mathayus's brother's throat and leaves Mathayus to be Eaten Alive by killer ants. When Mathayus escapes with Cassandra from Memnon's keep, Memnon has his top enforcer Thorak use a poisoned arrow to in an attempt to painfully kill Mathayus and bring Cassandra back to him. Memnon then plans to send a raiding party to wipe out the remaining members of the tribes that hadn't submitted to his rule and claim Cassandra for himself.

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#294765: Dec 27th 2021 at 5:01:01 AM

I noticed the CM example on YMMV.Ghostbusters 1984 covers both that film and Ghostbusters: Afterlife. Currently it's violating spoiler policy, since you can't have unmarked spoilers for a sequel work on the page for the earlier work. As I see it, the options are:

I'm heavily leaning toward the latter, since the example is troping another film as well.

Edited by Twiddler on Dec 27th 2021 at 5:02:58 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#294766: Dec 27th 2021 at 5:10:50 AM

For quote suggestions is unused dialogue viable?

I'd say latter tbh

Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 27th 2021 at 1:11:32 PM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#294767: Dec 27th 2021 at 5:39:13 AM

[tup] to Novelli and Governor Williams. Keep FANG.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#294769: Dec 27th 2021 at 8:33:49 AM

Pending stuff:

Scraggle, I don't care when you do your writeups, but may I request you do them before any more proposals? You're already at 7 (including Thresh).

On that latter note, we need a new image for the LOL page.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#294770: Dec 27th 2021 at 9:13:30 AM

Sorry for the delay with everything that has been going on I haven't been able to get to my writeup I will start working on it now.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#294772: Dec 27th 2021 at 9:20:57 AM

Yep, time to shave down. Let's get some writeups in, folks!

  • From Dusk Till Dawn 2: Blood Money: A petty bank robber in life, Luther Heggs becomes a particularly savage vampire in undeath. Having put together his old crew for a heist, Luther murders several women at the hotel and turns robber Jesus into a vampire. Massacring the bank guards and turning all but his former partner Buck, Luther initiates a total, brutal massacre of the SWAT Team and federal agents present, glorying in his newfound strength as one of the undead.
  • The Greatest Story Ever Told: Herod the Great is the tyrannical King of Judea, a paranoid and ruthless old man set to secure his power base. Learning that the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem, Herod initiates the brutal slaughter of the innocents, a massacre of all boys two or younger with it being reported to Herod that "none" are left alive, along with many of their families.
  • Captain Murderer: The infamous Captain Murderer is rumored to be a relative of Bluebeard. A sadistic cannibal, Murderer will take a wife and in a month, he has them roll out pie dough before informing them he is making a meat pie. He then decapitates them and cooks them, having killed numerous women before he kills one of two twins, prompting the other to avenge her sister by poisoning herself upon her own murder to bring him down.
  • Rosario: Kanade Kamiya is the head of the 7th Subdivision of Fairy Tale. A Siren who treasures the stories of the Sirens of antiquity who murdered at will, Kanade's dream is to slaughter humanity and pile up corpses as far as they can go so he might enjoy a mental high from it. Years ago, Kanade went on a killing spree to perk himself up, murdering numerous humans including the husband of innkeeper Marin Kawamoto.

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#294773: Dec 27th 2021 at 9:28:08 AM

[tup] to Swarm, Novelli and W Illiams. My condolences Ordeaux.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#294774: Dec 27th 2021 at 9:28:28 AM

  • Five Shows at Wario's: Entity 01, also known as The Devil, is the Greater-Scope Villain of the entire franchise and the one that created the curse itself Emma, responsible for the damnation of Wario and his friends' souls. Entity 01, with a little bit of manipulation from Emma, takes advantage of Bruno Gate, where he reveals that he plans to reach the Overworld to become a god and also completely reset time. Entity 01 tells Bruno that if he sells his soul to him, he will allow his daughter to be preserved through the reset. However, this is exactly what Entity 01 needs to finally be free in the normal world, and he, along with Emma, rampages across the world. They either kill them or imprison them in the The Theatre, where the residents are tortured and eventually killed.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#294775: Dec 27th 2021 at 9:53:00 AM

  • Psycho-Pass franchise:
    • Season 1 has the season's Big Bad and two Serial Killers:
      • The darkly charismatic Shōgo Makishima seeks out those with the potential to be killers and pushes them into living out their darkest fantasies so he may enjoy seeing the "true state" of humanity. If he ever grows bored with this, he simply has them eliminated. Makishima has no issues getting his own hands dirty, and slits the throat of an innocent girl in front of her friend out of disgust to her devotion to Japan's SIBYL system and her surprise that Makishima registers no negativity on its scale. Seeking to plunge Japan into anarchy, Makishima attempts to sabotage Japan's food supply and forms a twisted attachment to Enforcer Shinya Kōgami, unable to believe Shinya can go on without him when Makishima is gone.
      • Rikako Ōryō, one of Shogo Makishima's side projects, relishes Shakespeare's plays when they depict human cruelty and suffering. Rikako has an obsession with creating art by drugging her fellow female students before raping and murdering them. In order to mimic her father's artworks, which Rikako enjoyed even if she had nothing but contempt for the man himself, Rikako dissects the girls and arranges the corpses into scenes to mirror the portraits.
      • Toyohisa Sengūji, another of Makishima's associates, is an old man who has converted most of his body to cybernetics to achieve immortality. To alleviate his incredible boredom, Senguji has turned to hunting human beings. Senguji enjoys releasing his prey into the large sewers underneath the city and hunting them down while dressed as a Victorian hunter, along with his cybernetic robotic dogs which he uses to savage his prey before he executes them. Senguji's only passion is hunting people like this, and he has racked up dozens of victims. When done, he harvests the bodies to make tools out of their bones.
    • The Movie: Colonel Nicholas Wong is the ruthless military commander of Shambala Float, a dystopian country in crisis from the terror of its despotic regime. Having allied with Sibyl for mutual benefits, Wong launched a coup and disposed of chairman Chuan Han, replacing him with a puppet figure in his likeliness while Wong ostensibly took control. Under Wong's jurisdiction, Han's regime becomes far more brutal, violently oppressing any resistance through illegal abuse of Japan's technological exports. With the introduction of the Sibyl System to Shambala Float, Wong segregates latent criminals from those with clean hues, turning them into collared slaves subject to electric shocks and fatal poisoning at Sibyl's discretion. Wong, himself a latent criminal, exploits a loophole to have the cymatic scanners not detect him or his military personnel, thus allowing them to freely commit atrocities without fear of Sibyl. With the aid of Sibyl in furthering Shambala Float as a technological war machine, Wong ultimately plans to conquer all of Southeast Asia and rule with an iron fist.
  • Sinners of the System:
    • Crime and Punishment: Kyōka Tsujigai is the director of the rehabilitation facility Sanctuary, renowned for keeping her patients' crime coefficient under 90 and returning them to society. To achieve these results, however, Tsujigai performs inhumane experiments and drugging to brainwash her patients into being subservient to her will; those who resist the effects of her brainwashing experience excruciatingly painful symptoms, culminating in likely death, to uphold the dark secrets of Sanctuary. Tsujigai forces her enslaved workers into performing illegal labor, such as the disposal of radioactive waste, being able to easily write off any casualties due to society's apathy for latent criminals. When cornered by Inspector Mika Shimotsuki, Tsujigai claims to be well-intentioned by giving society's outcasts a place to be, but this is revealed to be a farce when Mika plays a video recording that exposes Tsujigai's sheer contempt for latent criminals, openly expressing their lives are worthless.
    • First Guardian: Colonel Yoshito Takaesu of the National Defense Forces oversees Sibyl's military operations outside of Japan's borders. Growing disillusioned with his losses in manpower and resources to maintain the Sibyl System's image of power, Yoshito harbors a desire to subvert Sibyl's authority and salvage his own reputation. In a collaboration with the Southeast Asian Union, Japan requests a task force to assist in dealing with local military insurgents that threaten the confederation. Yoshito, with a clique of military officers on board with his scheme, rigs the battle to be lost to test run an experimental Weapon of Mass Destruction. Officially deeming the battle lost and declaring land forces MIA, Yoshito proceeds to unleash a chemical agent upon the region, killing his own task force and most of the insurgents. When Itsuki Otomo inexplicably returns from the grave to exact revenge, Takaesu is willing to undertake any means to hide the conspiracy, from the lobotomization of government officials to the assassinations of Inspectors. Although Takaesu claims to have sacrificed much for his country, Enforcer Masaoka rebukes him, expressing that nothing could possibly justify his crimes.
    • On the Other Side of Love and Hate (aka In the Realm Beyond): Jean-Marcel Belmondo is a psychopathic mercenary in service of Guillermo Garcia, a renowned peacekeeper across the war-torn regions of the Southeast Asian Union. In truth, Garcia orchestrates tensions and conflict to extort money from all parties, with Jean handling the dirty work while Garcia acts as a negotiator. A vicious sadist, Jean takes pleasure in killing, with his only reservations being his life at stake for what he perceives isn't enough compensation from Garcia. At one point, Jean even committed genocide, rounding up all the civilians of a decimated village and sadistically toying with their fear before wildly gunning them down with childish glee.


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