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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#294726: Dec 26th 2021 at 6:35:52 PM

[tup] Swarm, Jorge, Hellyn , Bear

I'll have the Memnon write-up done soon since he seemed to have done well.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#294727: Dec 26th 2021 at 6:57:23 PM

Yes to Swarm, Jorge & Hellyn and I’m gonna be fighting pretty hard for FANG to keep here.

Edited by 43110 on Dec 26th 2021 at 2:57:48 PM

MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#294728: Dec 26th 2021 at 7:02:43 PM

I don't know anything about FANG so I'm abstaining.

I had to look up who Derrick Wyatt was. RIP.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#294730: Dec 26th 2021 at 7:15:48 PM

[tup] to Jorge and Hellyn.

Sung, can you please find the original EP before requesting a cut next time? Most of your questions can be solved with a pretty quick search. (Keep Fang, obviously)

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#294731: Dec 26th 2021 at 7:38:45 PM

I would appreciate Dood's advice being taken. I do like the willingness to challenge the status quo and as I've always said it should never be the default that a character is this trope, regardless of whether or not they're currently listed but these were questions that were answered years ago. Typing in the thread's name and the name of the character usually provides results on the first or second page. Rikako and FANG are pretty rock solid keepers from where I'm sitting.

MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#294732: Dec 26th 2021 at 7:42:16 PM

Speaking of, how long ago was Kyras effortposted? I can't find him and have some concerns about him counting.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#294733: Dec 26th 2021 at 7:45:57 PM

Assuming you mean Dawn of War's Kyras, he was effortposted only three years ago by me and I strove to hit every point for a consensus that wouldn't have to be revisited—the idea of the heinous standard, the idea of his FE after being marooned in Chaos for so long, the idea of his agency, so on and so forth.

I admit I don't exactly agree with the argument of "Kyras is the nastiest in Dawn of War, ergo he counts by the rest of the series standard!" (we cut Lijah Cuu after we reversed on that argument for Gaunts' Ghosts) but IIRC that was also debated and we decided that Kyras' ultimate goal stood out scale-wise even for a Khornate in the greater universe. Beside that, I firmly stand by every single argument I made for him, so unless you have proper new evidence...

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 26th 2021 at 8:51:15 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#294734: Dec 26th 2021 at 7:56:44 PM

Very very agreed with everything scraggle said. His excuse is worthless, he seeks a loss of life beyond most anything Chaos agents of Khorne attempt and he’s nasty as hell

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#294735: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:01:25 PM

GW is very clear when they want to make it apparent someone was corrupted vs. chose to dive in of their own volition. Just look at Horus' tragic fall compared to Abaddon's psychotic glee at the chance for power and to kill and torture till his edgy ass is satisfied. Kyras' dialogue makes it perfectly apparent he falls into the latter camp and the wholesale slaughter he conducts coupled with the Omnicidal Maniac goal puts him easily beyond the heinous standard even in that setting.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#294736: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:09:52 PM

From what I recall Omnicidal Maniacs aren't super common in Star Wars.

[tup] Bear, Jorge, Swarm and Hellyn

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#294737: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:11:17 PM

From what I recall Omnicidal Maniacs aren't super common in Star Wars.

Wrong series, buddy.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#294738: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:13:08 PM

Oh crap, how did I manage to mess that up. I am not too familiar with Warhammer all I really know is that the franchise has a really high heinous standard, which is why I usually stay out of discussions on the franchise.

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#294739: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:22:12 PM

Warhammer 40K has one of the highest heinous standards that's ever existed thus far, so someone from that work would have to be really vile in order for them to stand out.

Just an empty void…
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#294740: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:24:10 PM

I’m so sorry Ordeaux. This time is hard enough without losing a loved one. Take all the time you need.

Yes to Swarm. Here’s my write up for Tecteun (edited to fix a typo though I already sorted it on the Drafts):

  • Tecteun was once a Shobogan scientist that adopted the Timeless Child and, upon realising the Child’s ability to Regenerate from fatal wounds, conducted experiments that effectively killed her over and over to research the power and splice the necessary genes into herself and her people, co-founding the Time Lords. Afterwards she established the Division, coercing and enslaving her agents to manipulate the universe to her liking, in violation of the Time Lords’ vow of non-interference. When the Doctor, Tecteun’s once adoptive daughter and former Division agent, began looking for answers to her past and the Division, Tecteun simply unleashed the Flux to destroy the universe and move onto the next to continue her machinations forever.

So where should Tecetun go? She’s primarily a 13th enemy, but she is heavily implicated in Time Lord society and backstory and may be the mysterious “Other”, a Time Lord that worked with Rassilon and Omega to create their society. If we decide to put her just after Rasillon I say we use this heading:

  • Among the Founders of Time Lord society, these two are particularly corrupt.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Dec 27th 2021 at 1:00:56 AM

HighfalutinQuelea Since: Sep, 2016
#294741: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:25:41 PM

Possible contradiction in Marathon Man:

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#294742: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:34:18 PM

Yes to Swarm and Hellyn, keep Fang.

[up][up] I’d say at the top of the 13 section, while it’s highly likely she’s the Other I’d wait for some official confirmation.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#294743: Dec 26th 2021 at 9:30:44 PM

Yes to Hellyn. I need to check Marathon Man to make sure. I don't recall Szell being remotely aggrieved about Klaus

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#294745: Dec 26th 2021 at 9:45:56 PM

My deepest condolences Ordeaux

Yeah, Szell doesn't really react to his brother's death in any meaningful way

also with Tecteun, the write up doesn't say her name until one of the last sentences which I don't think is a good thing.

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#294746: Dec 26th 2021 at 10:12:47 PM

[tup] Bear, Jorge, Swarm and Hellyn

Keep FANG

Sorry about your grandma Ordeaux.

Edited by Mediawatcher on Dec 26th 2021 at 10:25:50 AM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#294747: Dec 26th 2021 at 10:37:03 PM

[tup] to Marie L'Angelle, Jody, Memnon, Bear Mullens, Jorge Valdez, Swarm, and Hellyn deVill. Keep Rikako Oryo and FANG.

@Ordeaux26: I'm terribly sorry to hear that. Take all the time you need to recover from your loss.

RIP Derek J. Wyatt.

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#294748: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:10:55 PM

Also, I'm very sorry to hear about your grandma, Ordeaux. Take all the time you need and hopefully things will get better for you.

Just an empty void…
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#294749: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:32:25 PM

So I might have three candidates from the Ultra Force animated series because why not I'm bored. So here goes.

What's The Work?

Ultra Force is a animated adaptation of the comic series of the same name, part of the Ultraverse. A rather short lived show centering around the titular team full of superpowered beings known as Ultras, fighting against supervillains in each episodes. Now I'll be talking about the starter villain, Atalon.

Who's Atalon and what has he done?

Appearing in only the first three episodes, Atalon is the king of the Fire People seeking nothing more than the eradication of the "Surface Dwellers" so he and the Fire People could conquer the world. Using the robotic monstrosity NM-E to attack the military base so it'll steal all the missiles and nuclear weapon to destroy all of humanity via a nuclear holocaust.

Using his powers to launch all the missiles across the world to annihilate all life in the surface. When this plan was foiled, Atalon plans a second attack only to be questioned by his own people about his actions. One of his subjects bringing up the fact his attempt at nuclear genocide might bring the destruction of his own people, Atalon uses NM-E to kidnap Ghoul so he'll use his powers to communicate with the Ancient Kings. If he gets them to support his cause, he'll make his people to stop questioning him and gain full support in his genocidal crusade, threating Ghoul if he refuses he'll torment him with something worse than death. Now the issue? Even the Ancient Kings deemed him a madman, calling him out on his BS goals and how he's far from being better than the humans he intend to destroy.

Angered by this, rather than listen to his elders he decided to lie to his people that he got approval from the Ancient Kings on his plans. Atalon destroys several warships and planes attempting to stop him. Atalon once again attempt to use the Warheads to split the world's tectonic plates and crack the Earth. As he continues launching the missiles deep in the Earth, causing lavas to erupt. His plan fails, when one of the Ultras sacrificed herself to stop the missiles from launching. When the Ancient Kings tries to tell him to let go of his hatred of humans, and have Fire People and Humans make peace, Atalon refuses but gets banished deeper in the Earth by the kings for his deeds.

Mitigating Factors

So Well-Intentioned Extremist? Wanting to conquer the surface for his people as revenge for what the humans did? Utter bullshit, both the characters and the narrative made sure he's nothing but a bigoted supremacist seeking a genocide for his own self serving hatred of humans. Even one of his subjects stated his actions might bring ruin to his people, but Atalon doesn't care, he tries to use the Ancient King to join his side so he'll keep his followers loyal to him so they won't question him, and when they refuse because they call him out on his deeds he resorts to lying to keep them in line. Not only does he ignore the potential on how his genocidal tendencies might harm his own people, he's willing to manipulate them so he could carry out his plans going so far as to ignore his subjects when they further question him because he really hates humans. Doesn't scream "Bad guy with Good Deeds" with me.

Heinous Standards

Despite being the Starter Villain, Atalon pretty much sets the standards for his plan to Kill All Humans, something no other villains in the show ever done. Doesn't help that he attends to do this via Nuke 'Em and splitting the Earth to kill all life on the surface.

The only other villain who tried to destroy the world is the show's incarnation of Boneyard, the final villain of this short lived series who also tormented an AI machine to gain its powers. He I'll get too soon. Other than him, Atalon easily stands out in the show.

Final Verdict

I'll let you decide whether he keeps or not.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Dec 26th 2021 at 2:33:59 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#294750: Dec 26th 2021 at 11:33:27 PM

Polar did you mean to start with "Tecteun was once..."?


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