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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

OldMcBrother He/They from Earth Since: Jul, 2021
He/They
#294276: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:02:44 PM

Yes, but being created out of humanity's will doesn't automatically make you have no moral agency.

OldMcBrother He/They from Earth Since: Jul, 2021
He/They
#294277: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:07:58 PM

Actually now that I think about Izanami from persona 4 is also a god based on people's collective unconscious and she seems to have some affable traits

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#294278: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:12:29 PM

Honestly, I feel Yaldabaoth's other argument is that he really has some genuine moments of "Honor".

Not much because the game doesn't want to focus on them, but Yaldabaoth's last words imply respect to the protagonist, which in a game where nearly everyone has their last words as a Villainous Breakdown, its something.

Watch me destroying my country
OldMcBrother He/They from Earth Since: Jul, 2021
He/They
#294279: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:16:15 PM

That honestly comes off more as the generic "Oh no I've been bested by the heroes" monologue.

OldMcBrother He/They from Earth Since: Jul, 2021
He/They
#294280: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:18:51 PM

I have considered the last two points you've made before making the effortpost for him but ultimately I've realised they really don't hold much water

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#294281: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:20:13 PM

Honestly understand that, I can see that point.

Watch me destroying my country
OldMcBrother He/They from Earth Since: Jul, 2021
He/They
#294282: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:23:12 PM

Anyways it's late for me now so I'm heading to bed.

I still think Yaldy is an easy qualifier.

Blazing_Larvesta Blazing Larvesta from Unova Route 18 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Blazing Larvesta
#294283: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:30:46 PM

[tup] to Yaldabaoth.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#294284: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:34:00 PM

I'm, er, gonna abstain on Yaldabaoth for now...

Who's tired of all these Marvel candidates? Not me! Another Wolverine for us all—this guy was the Starter Villain of Wolverine's long-running '88 series, from the very first issue ("Sword Quest").

What has Banapur Khan done?

A greedy Indonesian pirate, Banapur Khan tends to prey on refugee groups fleeing on boat from Cambodia and Vietnam. Banapur always massacres the men, rapes the women, then sell whatever survivors are left into the slave trade.

Banapur debuts in the middle of his routine; having captured and slaughtered the majority of an entire plane—well over two-hundred people—and personally decapitating their captain in front of the remaining women. Banapur and his men then drag the women off, gloating that they'll finish them off in time, but they'll make sure they have "fun" before them.

Banapur earns Wolverine's ire when he's hired to torture the information of a priceless blade out of one of Wolverine's friends. Said friend, Kojima Noburo, dies from the stress of it, resulting in Wolverine taking Banapur's entire gang apart. Banapur holds Wolverine's hand by putting a knife to the throat of one of his captive women, then trying to escape by boat, promising his captive will "keep him company" on the road before he sells her off to slavers. Thankfully, a surviving stewardess from the flight crew he massacred shoots him while he's not looking.

Any mitigating factor?

Uh, goddamned zilch. Banapur's got a pattern of gang-rape, mass-murder, torture, and human trafficking all for one measly issue. That's really goddamned impressive, even for a Wolverine rogue.

Conclusion?

Easy keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 23rd 2021 at 6:34:09 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#294287: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:41:11 PM

[tup] to Roanapu- I mean Banapur

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#294289: Dec 23rd 2021 at 5:51:27 PM

Yes to Banapur. Going to wait for someone else to weigh in on Yaldy… I don’t feel I’m getting all pertinent info from the arguments quite yet.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#294291: Dec 23rd 2021 at 6:18:51 PM

[tup] Dio, Vickers, Hitomi, Kanade, Luther, Piotr, Khan.

How about more The Arkn Mythos? I actually have one last potential candidate from The Arknverse and additional candidates from the rebooted timeline but I'm pretty sure the story arcs of some of them are still incomplete. This is going to be quick, I already talked about him before but I guess he deserves a proposal, I present you...

Who is he? Christian Spirit is the fanatical head of the Cult of Cooloficus Coolage—aka Coolest Cool—a Dekn-aligned sect that operates in the outskirts of New Comshine. Once a regular local preacher, Christian got in contact with a Dekn named Co'olfic'colag—who was masquering as the Governor of New Comshine at the time, Leeroy Maskwell—and became enamoured with his teachings, this dangerous obsession led to Christian gathering his religious community and founding Coolest Cool, sinking even deeper into the demonic worship that comes with being a fanboy of the Dekn, all to bring forth a "new age" of humanity with the influence of the Dekn. As the leader of Coolest Cool, Christian and his followers regularly perform occult rituals and human sacrifices in honor of the Dekn, and it's here that the story of Coolest Cool is split into two branches within the The Arkn Mythos Extended Universe:

  • As part of a ritual to summon his old buddy Co'olfic'colag into .Reality, Christian kidnaps a trio of mental patients, blinds them and orders his followers to Hunt The Most Dangerous Game—this became known to the local police department as the Three Blind Mice killings. His rebellious son and accomplice, Adam Spirit, interrupts the ritual by killing them himself. As punishment for disobeying him, Christian sacrifices Adam but something goes terribly wrong and the boy ends up slaughtering the rest of Coolest Cool as the vicious Hooks Killer.
  • Christian decapitates Adam's mother, rapes her headless corpse and—knowing that Adam was living in "The Well"—takes advantage of the desolate location to dispose of the corpses of children that fell prey to Coolest Cool—forcing Adam to resort to cannibalism to survive. Not satisfed, Christian begins lacing the corpses with fish hooks to torture the boy even further. Adam slowly made his way out of the Well and got his revenge on Christian, eating him alive. Accepting his new identity with pride, this iteration of Adam still turned into the Hooks Killer without becoming a member of Coolest Cool.

According to Word of God, since the Hooks Killer identity itself is constant throughout the multiverse—he exists in all timelines in some way or another—both stories are equally true and happened as the Start of Darkness of Adam Spirit... And both end with Christian meeting his demise at the hands of Hooks.

Mitigating Qualities? Not that I know of, Adam had a sister and an adopted brother but we don't have any information on the way that Christian viewed them.

Heinous? Christian has to compete with his son, an immortal and interdimensional Serial Killer with hundreds, if not thousands, of kills to his name. Now, Christian is not only partially responsible for the birth of the Adam Spirit incarnation of Hooks—Adam was already a sociopath in both branches of the extended universe, the nightmarish abuse only worsened his behavior—but he lacks the demigod-like power that Adam holds. He's a completely "normal" cult leader, torturer, child murderer and necrophile who happens to be obsessed with the Dekn. As a matter of fact, I'd say he's the only regular human villain in the extended non-canon universe, considering Adam is basically an Artificial Hybrid and his fellow serial killer, Alexander Tamil, is possessed by a homicidal Dekn.

Conclusion? Leaning [tup]

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 23rd 2021 at 6:49:03 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#294292: Dec 23rd 2021 at 6:22:47 PM

[tup] to Christian and Khan

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#294293: Dec 23rd 2021 at 6:32:47 PM

[tup]Banapur.

Why so serious?
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#294295: Dec 23rd 2021 at 6:33:41 PM

Aye to Banapur Khan and Christian Spirit. Abstaining on Yaldabaoth.

Next potential Stand Dust character…

What's the work?

Stand Dust (A JoJo's Bizzare Adventures X RWBY Crossover). See Dio's CM EP for further details.

Who's Brick Argento ? What has he done?

Brick Argento is a member of the Cult of the Silver Records, the son of the cult's leader Bronzo Argento and the older brother of fellow cult member Fiore Argento. A massive Blood Knight with prodigious potential in the creation of Grimm Guardians (massive Grimm who are planted as seeds and grow stronger with human sacrifices), Brick works alongside his sister, luring humans and sacrificing them for their cult's sake, with Brick using such sacrifices to empower his Guardian seed.

Brick and Fiore make their first appearance when they discover Jotaro, Kakyoin and Polnareff's hideout after Jotaro discovered one of the Silver Records' secret tunnel. The siblings subsequently attempt to kill the trio (though they predictably fail), destroy their hideout and leave them a message threatening their lives, forcing the trio to leave Beacon for an extended period to limit collateral damage.

Settling in a village, the trio discover that the siblings settled there.

As if it's not enough, Brick and Fiore also kidnaps numerous people to use as human sacrifices, with their latest victims being a child and an old man that would've certainly died if it wasn't for Polnareff saving them. In fact, children and elderly people, due to their inability to fight back, are their preferred targets.

When Jotaro, Kakyoin and Polnareff attack their base, the siblings attempt to blow them up in an enormous mine field. Brick quickly engages Jotaro in a fight.

Oh, and about Brick's Guardian seed, Hecaton ? Brick deliberately buried it under the village. So when it becomes strong enough? Well, as soon as it grows, it wipes out the village and everyone in it.

Oh, and just to Kick the Dog further, Brick gleefully shows Jotaro a vision of the ensuing horror that's set to happens if the latter doesn't win :

Death. Dead bodies everywhere, some missing their heads, some torn in half, some mangled to the point they didn't even look human, splattered onto the ground or on a half-destroyed house like a gigantic stain.

While also announcing he's not going to just stop with the village. He's targeting the entire kingdom! Fortunately defeated by Jotaro before he can put his plans to motion, Brick begs Jotaro

To kill him as brutally as possible. Jotaro instead goes for a quick death, snapping his neck before burying him. Brick doesn't minds though.

Heinousness?

Human sacrifices? Are common, if not required in the Cult of the Silver Records, especially for those who want to create Guardians, because they need to become stronger with human sacrifices. Brick doesn't have a lot of screentime either.

What makes Brick so special? His attempted bodycount despite his low resources. Not only does he attempts to wipe out an entire village, gleefully showing what happens if Jotaro fails to stop him, but he also states that he isn't stopping with the village, and plans to deal with the whole-ass kingdom next.

Now, his first crimes are shared with Fiore (though they're already enough to cross the Moral Event Horizon). But wiping out the village? Attempting to annihilate the entire kingdom? That's all on Brick, and at no point Fiore matches such atrocities.

Within the Jojo verse, you could compare him to the likes of Cioccolata and Sogliola Lopez for sheer bodycount. All of this despite a low amount of screen time.

Anyone worse than him within the fanfic has higher resources. Anguis, his superior (she has a stronger Guardian than him, implying a bigger amount of human sacrifices, but her attempted bodycount, unlike Brick, goes no farther than trying to kill the heroes) ? Bronzo, the founder and leader of the whole ass cult to begin with? Erde Steele, whose Stand is an entire factory using souls as fuel and empowered by the late Cinder Fall ? Dio, whose sheer power allows him to target Remnant as a whole ? Yeah, Brick doesn't stacks up against most of them because he's not remotely able to in the first place. And even then, he throughly outclasses Anguis in the heinous standard due to a far, far bigger attempted bodycount.

Despite that, Jotaro notes that Brick is one of the worst people he met in a long time.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming qualities?

None. He has normal, borderline meaningful (as in, meaningful for Fiore's Character Development) conversations with his sister (and she does cares about him, being the only one who comes close to actually mourning his death), but nothing indicates that he cares about her in a meaningful way. He notes that his father doesn't cares about him, but doesn't seems to mind that in the slightest. He's capable of some twisted Villain Respect (and Jotaro returns the respect to an extent, burying Brick after killing him) as he likes Jotaro for being a prey that's an actual challenge, but only because he's addicted to violence even when he's on the receiving end, and is no Noble Demon at all, being an otherwise condescending Smug Snake.

All that's left is an Ax-Crazy Blood Knight who just happens not to go through a Villainous Breakdown when the shoe is on the other foot.

Any other mitigating factors?

Hashe.

Verdict ?

Up to you guys.

Pre-emptive write-up

  • Stand Dust (A JoJo's Bizzare Adventures X RWBY Crossover) : Brick Argento is the son of the leader of the Cult of the Silver Records Bronzo Argento and is a Hunter of the Silver Records with his younger sister Fiore. Settling in a village, Brick and Fiore kidnap several villagers nearby — preferably elderly and children — to sacrifice them to his Grimm Guardian Seed. Once the Guardian, Hecaton, fully grows, Brick intends to use it to destroy the village and kill everyone in it, before moving on to the entire kingdom to give them the same fate, gleefully showing Jotaro a vision of what he has in store for the villagers.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Dec 23rd 2021 at 3:34:58 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#294297: Dec 23rd 2021 at 7:38:16 PM

[tup] Khan, Piotr, Yaldy, Brick, Christian

Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 23rd 2021 at 3:58:05 PM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#294298: Dec 23rd 2021 at 8:41:22 PM

Just popping in to witness the vote on Yaldaboth. Luckily I've also played Persona 5 and I think I'll give Yaldaboth a [tup].

Sure he's meant to be a collective of everyone's shadows but I honestly don't think that it impairs his moral agency that much, especially since he is fully aware of what he is and takes smug joy about it.

Plus with the new rules on moral agency I'm more lenet on Yaldy, especially since we do have other antagonist who have similar circumstances like Yaldy such as Izama from 4 and EMMA Strikers but are genuinely well-intentioned and polite contrasting Yaldaboth whose much more malicious and selfish really just orchestrating all the events just to fuel his own ego and superiority.

Also that last line of seemingly showing "respect" to the heroes is really just him being upset and complaining about the possibility of his view being wrong because he's such a huge Narcissist. With that I'll give Yaldy a [tup]

While I'm also here [tup] Brick, Banapur and Christian Spirit

Edited by G-Editor on Dec 23rd 2021 at 11:47:13 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#294299: Dec 23rd 2021 at 8:42:57 PM

With that [tup] Yaldy

Also [tup] Georgie's two.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 23rd 2021 at 8:43:30 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#294300: Dec 23rd 2021 at 8:48:51 PM

Okay with that, I'll with my vote for Yaldabaoth to a [tup] for now.


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