During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
- Band of the Hand: Nestor is a slimy Miami drug lord and a consummate user and abuser. Angered that a group of teenagers named the "Band of the Hand" are cutting into his profits in their attempt to gentrify the Wretched Hive of a neighborhood he rules over, Nestor allows his homicidal right-hand-man Cream to try and slaughter them all, resulting in the death of their mentor Joe. Nestor also has a sixteen-year-old girl named Nikki under his thumb whom he pimps and rapes. He's so viciously possessive of Nikki that he stabs a knife through a mook's hand for looking at her, and when she flees his psychotic grip, Nestor encourages his minions to "do whatever you want with her" so long as she ends up dead by the end.
- Sushi Girl: Duke, the Faux Affably Evil gangster who sets up sushi dinner over the eponymous sushi girl, is a man with no loyalty to anything but himself and his material wealth. After a botched robbery that left three people dead—during which Duke hacked off the hand of a man after he refused to turn over the diamonds Duke wanted—Duke reunites all of his gang members so he can find out where "Fish" supposedly hid the diamonds. Over the course of the film, Duke puts Fish through a horrific, twenty-minute torture sequence that finally ends up with Fish croaking from the abuse, and then proceeds to kill all three of his remaining gangsters with nothing more than an apathetic sigh, even his utterly loyal friend Crow. Even his Freudian Excuse is revealed to be an elaborate ruse, and after he's cheated of the diamonds Duke simply decides to cut his losses and rape the sushi girl as a "consolation prize."
BTW, a slight change to the Thor tree.
Current:
- Thor's stories:
- The Mighty Thor:
- Surtur
- Malekith the Accursed
- Annual Vol. 1 issue #18's "Forged in Fire": Skulveig
- Thor: Vikings: Harald Jaekelsson
- Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill: Asteroth
- The Mighty Thor:
New:
- Thor's stories:
- Surtur
- Malekith the Accursed
- Annual Vol. 1 issue #18's "Forged in Fire": Skulveig
- Vikings: Harald Jaekelsson
- Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill: Asteroth
EDIT: Also, Scraggle, okay if I change "Duke, the Faux Affably Evil gangster..." to "Duke, the gangster..."?
Edited by ACW on Dec 16th 2021 at 3:47:54 PM
@Acw: Rita's sentai counterpart is Witch Bandora from Zyuranger who doesn't at all count (loves her son and minions). Grand Witch Grandiene's power ranger's counterpart is Queen Bansheera who does count (one of the most faithful adaptions of a sentai cm in fact ).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."User/ACW
Robert is Domino's chief of staff in the episode, and is involved in Domino's plan to destroy the casino for the insurance scam.
I linked the video in my original proposal so you can see more details for yourself.
Yeah fun fact. Even the guys who count in both usually have major differences (Akumaro for example is a childish psychopath while Serrator is a sauve chess master).
But her and Darkonda /Guirial are...pretyy much the same.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Mince
Quick update on The Arkn Mythos, it appears that Hooks was given a Dark and Troubled Past: By his admission, his original incarnation was that of Adam Spirit, the bastard son of Christian Spirit, an abusive father and a cult leader who forced his son to live down a well and eat human corpses laced with fish hooks that ended up mutilating his face and insides. The same backstory also explains that the young Adam always had a homicidal tendencies, he was isolated in school for hurting other children and even smiled upon finding the dismembered remains of his own mother, while another source indicates that Christian punished him because he was fed up with Adam's bloodlust. His complete backstory remains a mystery and almost a Multiple-Choice Past—helped by the several reboots and massive Continuity Snarl—he definitely stays, dude's easily the worst character I've ever proposed. Anyway, I'll take the opportunity to give him and Elias Exodus a rewrite:
- The Arkn Mythos: In a Forever War with a vast cast of morally ambiguous characters, a few stand out as irredeemably evil:
- The Hooks Killer is among the worst, particularly in the Extended Universe canon.
- Believed to be Adam Spirit, the bastard son of Dekn worshiper Christian Spirit, he is a repulsive murderer with a preference for torture and cannibalism, be it on infants or the elderly. When he was still Adam Spirit, he slaughtered his father's cult and eviscerated his own pregnant sister. Jumping between various timelines and eras, he reinvents himself under a different identity in every reality to ensure that he will never get caught. His Historical Rap Sheet includes inflicting torments on an entire kingdom as the English monarch Comshine Orok; murdering over a hundred people as the Wild West outlaw Barnabelt Kinnard; helping fellow serial killer Alexander Tamil with his own murders and inadvertently starting a Zombie Apocalypse in New Comshine as Adrian Tamil. He later becomes a Psycho for Hire for The Carver; cutting open a young filmmaker and raising him into his body, allowing The Carver to roam freely throughout .Reality. In one of his final appearances, Hooks confesses onscreen to having committed hundreds of murders in one town over the past 40 years.
- His Universe A incarnation—Marty Taylor, initially presumed to have been a patient of Dr. Ellis—who may be a descendant of that continuity's original Kinnard, is, while seemingly confined to a single timeline, virtually identical in terms of his sadism, twisted nature, and love of atrocities—such that the Carver himself refers to him as a "monster". This version of Hooks is also Carver's partner and is hinted to have given him a vessel in a similar manner. Not content with this extremely risky act, he decides, just because he can, to go public about the Arkn and Dekn—setting off the May 15th Catastrophe, which causes a system-wide crash that obliterates multiple timelines and countless lives. The last time he's seen onscreen, he guts Michael Knight, sending him to the Infernous to be tormented by the Carver, who then claims him as a vessel. Hooks may be a mere human, but he proves himself to be far more deplorable than most supernatural entities in the setting.
- Elius'Exe'Deus—simplified as Elias Exodus—is a sociopathic half-Arkn boy and the last of the Nephilim. As a child, he survived genocide by hiding in the Hybrid Grounds; once left to his own devices, Exodus wasted little time in slaughtering all the other Nephilim and absorbing their souls. In 2015, Exodus returns as an amnesiac suffering from voices inside his head. Once his memories "return" when Vine saves him from committing suicide, Exodus reveals that he's been faking his amnesia—the "voices" he hears are his victims screaming, much to his delight—and thanks Vine for saving him by leaving him to rot in the Hybrid Grounds for eternity. After departing, Elias is intent on consuming both Arkn and Dekn to become a living god, gloating and laughing about having driven his own race to extinction.
- The Hooks Killer is among the worst, particularly in the Extended Universe canon.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 16th 2021 at 3:24:14 AM
Seems so, I have seen cases like this happening where villains have tragic pasts that would seem disqualifying but the narrative doesn't portray it as even somewhat influencing their evil actions. It is always a bit weird when it happens but I guess it works.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 16th 2021 at 2:07:50 AM
So will Robert be added to Lupin III soon?
Edited by mrluntishysterical on Dec 16th 2021 at 6:14:38 AM
Here's another candidate from Patricia Cornwell's series about Medical Examiner Kay Scarpetta.
The Work
Point of Origin, the ninth book of the series, starts with the investigation on a fire that has destroyed a farmhouse in Virginia. The victims include 18 horses and a young woman called Claire Rawley, who however seems to have been murdered prior to the fire, her face removed instead of being devoured by flames. Delving into the mystery, Scarpetta's team crosses paths with one of the most depraved serial killers they have ever faced.The Candidate
Newton Joyce — what is exactly Cornwell's issue with first names? Anyway — is a wealthy British entrepreneur who struggled with a bad case of acne during his youth, often becoming the target of bullies and carrying the scars on his face into adulthood. And how does he deal with this? Does he resort to plastic surgery, since he's very well off? Does he rub his success in his past bullies' face? Of course not — he becomes a Serial Killer.
Joyce chooses young and beautiful targets, mutilating them in various ways to disguise his true aim: to carve out their faces and collect them. Starting in the UK, Joyce moves to the United States, leaving dismembered torsos to be found (Kay even found some in the previous novel Unnatural Exposure, but there she had to deal with another serial killer).
At some point before the events of Point of Origin, he meets Carrie Grethen, Gault's accomplice who has escaped a psychiatric ward following the death of her former partner-in-crime. She knows he's a fellow serial killer because of... reasons, and she teams up with him to exact her vengeance on Kay, suggesting him new methods to better disguise their crimes: fires.
After killing Claire Rawley, the Outlaw Couple starts a fire knowing that it will also put the horses of the farmhouse in danger, with 18 of them dying in a slow, agonizing way because of this. After his twenty-seventh murder, which turns out to be messier than usual to carry out, Joyce is finally cornered by the police. He and Carrie try to escape on his helicopter but they are stopped when Lucy (Kay's niece) manages to shoot the copter blades. The diabolical couple dies in the ensuing midair explosion.
Mitigating factors
None to be found. Joyce had all the sanity and the wealth to get rid of whatever burden acne had left him, instead he preferred to use it as an excuse to indulge in his sick fantasies.Heinousness
I have missed the latest Scarpetta's novels but Joyce should still be the Serial Killer with the highest body count in the series. His cruelty extends to both human and animal targets, which is quite rare even in a series as morbid as this. I don't think that Carrie would qualify since she has a more passive role and has a sort of twisted loyalty for Gault. The only other I can think of is the killer in Unnatural Exposure (albeit with a lower body count), but I will reserve that for another post.Final Verdict
I think he qualifies even more easily than Gault.Edited by Cring1 on Dec 16th 2021 at 3:18:25 AM
Last Bible is one of the first Shin Megami Tensei spin offs. Initially starting as games in the Gameboy, its third entry was made for the SNES.
Last Bible distances itself from the franchise by being set on a more "generic" Medieval Fantasy setting, even if demons still exist and are treated as always.
Last Bible III is set in the aftermath of a grand war involving the Polisian States, where the world is recovering from the losses. Our protagonist Ciel is the son of war hero Glen, who is a member of a Polisian assasin group known as the Shadow Walkers.
Cancellor Ben-Shoar created a machine of perpetual energy and put a end to the war, but he now plans to murder the former Shadow Walkers to Take Over the World. And to do this, he hires a ancient enemy of the Shadow Walkers...
Who is Banipal?
A mysterious sorcerer, Banipal searches for inmortality and experiments on both humans and demons to this end, leaving them on a state of constant agony. In the past, Banipar was sealed for the Shadow Walkers, but now, he is freed by Ben-Shoar, who hires him promising him a copy of the Necronomicon, a legendary book writen for the ancient civilization of Biantica.
Banipar accepts and poses as a injured man that is rescued for a village where one Shadow Walker lives. Now inside the village, Banipar proceeds to massacre the village and the Shadow Walker inside it, whose spirit eventually swears revenge.
We don't see the massacre itself, but we have access to diaries detailing the last days of the village and we see the ruins of the recently depopulated town, eventually revealing that Banipar's .
Banipar also creates murderous demons that murder children of nearby villages, in extremely brutal ways as told by NPC s. Then, protagonist Ciel, his little brother Rudy and their teacher Carol go to investigate and enter Banipar's lair, where they discover agonizing living beings used for experimentation and Banipar's books detailing his progress.
Carol stays to fight with Banipar while her students leave and is letally injured in the process, using the last forces to blow up Banipar's lair.
Banipar is still alive, but Carol's sacrifice gives time to the people of the nearby towns to evacuate.
As the story advance, Banipar kidnaps a longtime ally named Harry and proceed to experiment with him to discover the secret of Harry's ability to take over the bodies of animals, those experiments end up on Harry's death. Banipar also kills one of the comic relief demon partners of Jonathan, other of our party members, causing him to swear revenge.
The fight with Banipal reveals that he is actually a slime that took human form before escaping after making a grand effort to recover his humanoid form. Eventually, this is his eventual doom, as the heroes find a way to bypass his virtual inmortality by freezing his Slime Form.
As Banipal die, Rudy says that he hopes he is reborn as a good person before leaving the statue-corpse of Banipar.
Heinousness?
Last Bible 3 features two Big Bad. Cancellor Ben-Shoah and the vengeful spirit of Alek Mecenas, a shadow walker whose life was ruined at orders of the first.
Ben-Shoah is a rutheless dictator that uses a Super Weapon to destroy a enemy army in his goal to Take Over the World, has Matrix style dream-farm machines to drain energy of powerful Gea users and is the man that hires Banipal to kill the Shadow Walkers.
Alek Mecenas is even worse, as his goal is to cause destruction as revenge, starting a brutal apocalyptic invasion of the human world and reducing the population of the world.
Banipal is no Evil Overlord of either a Human Superpower or a Demon Army, he is a sorcerer trying to become inmortal. Across the game, Banipal's crime of putting sapient beings to a And I Must Scream fate For Science! is unique, with neither Big Bad trying that at all (even Ben-Shoah's Lotus-Eater Machine puts his victims in a peaceful dreamworld). Then we add his Hero Killer role, with he personally killing Miss Carol, Harry and Jonathan's partner, making him a personal enemy to the protagonists.
Redeeming traits?
None at all. He is actually a Slime, but there is ambiguity if its because he is a Slime that took human form or a Human that became a slime in his experiments. Regardless of this, Demons in Last Bible 3 are shown as living normal co-existance with humanity, with Slimes being weird, but not malicious, NPC in some zones.
Verdict?
A fairly personal Knight of Cerebus from a underrated game of the SNES
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 16th 2021 at 6:46:21 AM
Watch me destroying my country
to Newton Joyce. The guy just sounds like he's just petty for the sake of it.
So, I brought it up in the MB thread, but SID 6.7. Can the VR program count as it shows more sentient control than his programming? He's a bloodthirster android in the real world, using his newfound body to commit all the murders he can, while he has total direct control in the VR world.

Mince.
Why so serious?