During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@Old Mc Brother, if you think so why don't you check on him?
EDIT: You know what nevermind I misread
Edited by Powermaster201 on Dec 14th 2021 at 5:56:36 AM
Pretty sure last time I checked Yaldabaoth is the embodiment of humanity's collective desire to maintain social order regardless of cost as well as their ability to believe in any sort of lie regardless of how blatant they are.
I don't think he has agency.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."OK, so I did a little more digging, and the Castle was built in the 1860s and the painting was created in 1885 according to Egon. I cannot tell if Ivo built it himself - his family had owned the island for generations purportedly. I do know Ivo built many features but I can't find out if he built it all. I cannot find great info for how old he was when he died see, so I can't make a firm timeline for Shandor Castle - hell, I don't even know when his mother died. For all I know his mother hung up the picture and he never bothered to take it down. You know how frustrating this is? I'd love a hard and solid answer just to end this!... Holy shit I just read this on the GB Wiki: "To the left of Shandor's Mother appears to be a rendition of the Temple of Gozer." That's a cool detail. But I don't know what it means! Was she a Gozer worshipper? Was it Ivo secretly showing off his Gozer worship? Did he make it to honour Gozer rather than his mother? I have no clue. Sorry for not bringing it up in the EP. I never even noticed the Temple. Just so you guys can see it yourself, I'll try and upload it... how do I upload? I just tried it.
As for write ups, I'll take a look at what we got and edit it.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Dec 14th 2021 at 3:05:03 AM
- Ivo Shandor was a renowned architect and doctor whom is the catalyst for the franchise as a whole. Notorious during his lifetime for performing unnecessary surgery, Ivo revived the Cult of Gozer to summon Gozer the Gozerian to wipe out humanity. To this end, he recruits numerous cultists, binding them to his service in life and afterlife, and renovates several famous landmarks to serve as conduits for Ghost energy, including the infamous 55 Central Park West building that summoned Gozer in 1984. In 1991 Shandor possessed the mayor of New York City and unleashed a legion of ghosts to terrorise the City and use them as an energy source for his ritual. To complete said ritual he attempted to sacrifice one of his own descendants, Ilyssa Selwyn, to become a god and remake the world in his own image, even forsaking Gozer for failing him twice.
I'll let ACW decide on the other potholes. What do you guys think?
Edited by PolarPhantom on Dec 14th 2021 at 3:44:29 AM
That works. Please add to the Drafts.
So replace the current quote with Shandor's? Posting them again:
The current one:
Edited by ACW on Dec 14th 2021 at 6:39:28 AM
Zurgo
Also we lost another Dragon Ball voice actor. RIP, Joji Yanami who has played the Narrator, King Kai, Dr. Briefs, and within our CM list Babidi.
Edited by Snowy66 on Dec 14th 2021 at 4:12:25 AM
Damn, RIP to Joji Yanami. Big part of many's anime pasts I know
Alright, since the cat's out of the bag on this collab, with Scrags soon doing a re-eval of Princess Shroob—who, having refreshed on the material to back him up, I wholeheartedly endorse counting ahead of time, just putting that out in case I'm not feeling up to voting the next couple days—I wanna thank him for suggesting this one to me, my very first candidate from the Nintendo banner proper
What's the work?
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door is a delightful RPG game starring the titular red-rockin' plumber Mario, as he ventures outside of the Mushroom Kingdom to travel to the dangerous, roguish town of Rogueport to investigate the recent disappearance of Princess Peach! And it isn't Bowser this time! :O
As our hero travels through Rogueport and far beneath it, he learns of ancient prophecies, legends, and tales of an ancient evil while going up against apparent Big Bad Grodus...but while Grodus is masterminding a diabolical scheme, it's the subject of this scheme—and Rogueport's dark history—that brings us our candidate!
Who is the Shadow Queen? What has she done?
Once upon a time, 1,000 years ago, in the town that would become Rogueport, a demon named only the Shadow Queen arrived and laid siege to the town, decimating it and leaving only a small chunk of it standing to serve as her abode. The Shadow Queen sent out her trio of dragons—Hooktail, Gloomtail and Bonetail—to terrorize and devour countless innocents across the world, while spreading her darkness and influence through the power of Crystal Stars, sowing chaos and fear as she remade the world over in her image.
The Shadow Queen used her nasty Pit of 100 Trials to torment and eliminate any who she so wished, casting untold numbers of people down into the horrible, monster-populated Pits for them to be tortured, rot and die...the world seemed lost to the Shadow Queen's evil until 4 heroes rose up against her and sealed her away, but not before the Shadow Queen cursed all 4 heroes to be trapped in "black chests" and corrupted into ghostly phantoms, only freed centuries later thanks to Mario's efforts.
Now, throughout the game proper, Grodus works to restore the Shadow Queen to power and help her take over the world, and soon enough summons her to use Princess Peach as a vessel. The Shadow Queen possesses Peach in climax of the game, dominating her mind and using her body as a puppet, before repaying Grodus for freeing her by casually vaporizing him, Grodus shown to have only barely survived in a later Easter Egg.
Offering Mario a place as her loyal servant, if the Shadow Queen's offer is accepted, the game shows the world being consumed in darkness and destruction, the Shadow Queen ensuring that "For Mario...for Peach...for the world...it was game over."
Buuuuut in the obvious canon ending, the Shadow Queen is rejected by Mario, and she responds by gleefully trying to destroy Mario and his friends, using Peach's body to empower herself. Ultimately, though her power is great, the Shadow Queen is overwhelmed by Peach's fighting from within and Mario's own skill, and the Shadow Queen is destroyed once and for all, the world saved for good.
Mitigating features?
Nooooope, she's a pure evil Eldritch Abomination-style demon who wants nothing but power and evil to reign.
She's not a GDV, either. She's not winning any complexity awards, but she's a frightening, taunting presence who gets plenty of nasty character beats like trying to kill Grodus in ungrateful spite, or the many taunts she levels at Mario and his friends.
Heinousness?
Worst in the game itself, and between the loosenings of Offscreen Villainy rules and frankly not even that, she's more than got the deeds. We see the town that would become Rogueport being assaulted in a flashback, we travel through the decimated ruins of said town, we get extensive, detailed stories and in-game tales of how the Shadow Queen terrorized the world in the past....and then we get the trio of dragons having lairs littered in bones, the Pit of 100 Trials getting the same display of bones and stories of its torments, and when the Shadow Queen returns, the world over is shown to be thrown into chaotic disarray, darkness engulfing the land and monsters encroaching on innocents.
We get enough.
Final Verdict?
Quite an easy Yes to my very first from this franchise, thanks again to Scrags for suggesting
Edited by Ravok on Dec 14th 2021 at 5:47:52 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I would probably be fine with her counting, but I think you may want to mention how she compares to the other villains in the series, we don't need to worry about the other villains in the Mario franchise as a whole but in the Paper Mario franchise we have Dimentio and King Olly both of who are pretty bad as well.
Edit:
Shadow Queen. Honestly, I'm surprised she didn't count already.
Okay, time to talk about the Overlord series.
Now before I effortpost anyone, guess I should do a quick overview of the series to establish the tone and Heinous Standard.
The Overlord series consists of five video games, and an expansion pack for the first one. It's a loving but irreverent take-off of Dark Fantasy, fantasy in general and especially elements of The Lord of the Rings
Overlord I is the first game in the series. You play as the titular Overlord, the third in the continuity overall, who must fight against the members of an adventuring party, each of whom has been corrupted by one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Eventually you find out it was all being orchestrated by your predecessor, the Second Overlord, who wanted to take his revenge on them and provide the catalysts for his return. Notable for having a Karma Meter and six moral choices themed around the aforementioned Deadly Sins, corresponding with the area of the world you fight the relevant heroes in. Has quite a bit of Video Game Caring Potential which is the main thing that tells me characters from this series have potential.
Overlord: Raising Hell is an expansion pack to the first game, in which mysterious gateways start cropping up in places around the world, luring your subjects away from you. Going through these portals reveals them to be connected to parts of the Abyss, a Fire and Brimstone Hell in the setting. Five of the Seven Heroes you defeated are in them, being tormented and punished in very Ironic Hell sorts of ways, along with the inhabitants of different parts of the world. Turns out it was all a plot by the ruler of the Abyss, the Forgotten God, who was imprisoned there and cursed to be forgotten by mortals, to torment people so much that they start to remember him. Ends with you being trapped in the Abyss, but now in charge of it.
Overlord II is the second game. Again you play an Overlord, Fourth overall; this one is actually the son of the Third Overlord and his Mistress, Rose. The plot involves him fighting to establish a dominion and push back against the magic-hating evil empire that sprang up a while after the Third's disappearance. First on the map of conquest, the figuratively and literally cold northern town he grew up in as a bullied, persecuted orphan with almost no friends. Notable for its Karma Meter being not Good vs. Evil, but Lawful Evil vs. Chaotic Evil in that you have to decide between magically subjugating the world or killing everything in your path. Also the evil emperor of said empire is actually Florian Greenheart, a seemingly-friendly elf NPC you run into a few times. Turns out he destroyed the power source for your Daddy's Evil Tower of Ominousness to try and give himself magic powers, unleashed a massive destructive explosion on the world, and capitalised on the subsequent fear and hatred of magic to build an empire, genocide all magical people and creatures and acquire their magic essence to become a god of magic. Douchebag.
Overlord: Dark Legend is a prequel game covering the rise to power of the First Overlord, showing how he was a young prince, Spare to the Throne, who was not expected to be much. Pretty light and soft compared to the first three entries, with no big conspiracy to unravel; mostly you and your advisor are doing the manipulating.
Overlord: Minions is a spin-off set during the rule of the First Overlord. Involves another big conspiracy, this time about the last of a race of Draconic Humanoids working to resurrect his people through experiments on other races. It was a gameplay departure in favour of four Minions (they're the goblinoid henchmen who serve the Overlords) being essentially a team of wacky specialists fighting through puzzle levels. So obscure that I can't find any good footage of it on You Tube. Probably doesn't do much to the HS.
Overlord: Fellowship of Evil is yet another spin-off set after the death of the Fourth Overlord and features four Netherworld dwellers vying to be the new Overlord. This was basically a Diablo-alike with the antagonists being a sapient Unicorn of all things and some paladins who were trying to beautify the world and rid it of Evil using a magic force called the Golden. Definitely doesn't make it any harder to get CM candidates given its Hero Antagonist cast.
Of these, I believe the Second Overlord, the Forgotten God, Florian and his Dragon Marius are are viable candidates. If you guys agree, I'll start with an effort-post tomorrow.
Edited by MinisterOfSinister on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:01:47 PM
@Pap: claims of Offstage Villainy and being a Generic Doomsday Villain, both of which are happily refuted in the EP (and TBH she probably counted even before the OV rules change). Imma throw a happy yes her way, while I'm here.

In that case, and considering the rest of the mansion isn't decrepit as I had thought, I'll give a yes.
What do you wanna do about the writeup?