During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll take care of the link.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No, not approved. PM the troper though, as dude sounds nasty.
Edited by ACW on Dec 14th 2021 at 4:36:55 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Ask G.
He's from the new season which came out a few weeks ago.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Shoot I haven’t got a chance to watch Hanna season 3. Though, that guy may be worth looking into when I watch it. I anyone has already seen Hanna and want to discuss him that is totally fine with me
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I ask yet again: Keep the Chucky writeups separate, or make a tree at Other Media? I prefer the latter, but I'm fine either way.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Emperor of Evil!
Quick question, since Shandor is now reapproved, do we allow just restore the writeup that got cut or just let Polar make a new one?
Goku Black
Let Polar decide.
Since he did this reevaluation.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I say let Polar decide. Here's the original writeup FWIW:
- Ivo Shandor is a renowned architect and doctor who is responsible for all of the bad things that happened in the game. During his lifetime, he was notorious for performing unnecessary surgery. He is also the leader of the Cult of Gozer, which is trying bring their god, Gozer, to wipe out humanity. To this end, he manipulates several American famous power brokers—including the Chairman of International Steel—to do his bidding, and renovates several famous landmarks. He also builds the infamous 55 Central Park West building to summon Gozer. After his death, and due to his master's failure to destroy the humanity for the second time, Shandor then possessed the mayor of the New York City and then tries to pin his crimes into Walter Peck to distract the Ghostbusters so that he could kidnap one of his descendants, Ilyssa Selwyn, in order to become a god and remake the world in his own image.
Go back to Shandor's quote for the page?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
At the very least that last line needs a rewrite as jeez its long.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Shandor reassessment.
For the upcoming mario E Ps, I'll say that I'm hyped for the Shadow Queen EP given our change of rules regarding gdv, Shroob will need a bit more convincing even with new agency rules.
As to the guy thats reposting candiates from The Hohenzollern Empire, I'm legitimately thinking of checking out that AAR in the future because a couple of figures in there do look nasty even with the no-onscreen genocides or depictions of such atrocities rule in Paradox fourms that they really push the letter enough.
Edited by xie323 on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:13:54 AM
to Yi Yang, Mongul of the Mystic Mountains, Zynbel, Ivo Shandor and Temple Brooks Gault.
Abstain on Severen. Sorry to hear your going through that Ravok.
@xie323, thank you!
Here's some real pieces of work you should check out.
Worm Cultist Hassan (Part 1), The Lord Of Asia (Part 1), The Whore Of Babylon (False Martin Luther, seen in Part 2), Konrad Von Habsburg (Parts 2-3), Alfred Hoffman (Parts 4-5), Markos Angelos (Parts 3-4), Roman... (I forgot the last name, Part 4), and Ferdinand Galliard (likely going to be rejected for being minor compared to the other villains shown above except Roman, Part 5). There are others, and who knows, I may have overlooked a potential candidate!
Here's the links to each separate Parts!
Edited by OrrorSANESS on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:28:32 AM
Goku Black
gault.
Sorry missed that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Yi Yang, Mongul of the Mystic Mountains, Ivo Shandor, and Temple Brooks Gault.
Goku Black
Didn't you vote on some of these before ?
Edited by miraculous on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:27:50 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Markos Angelos is at the very least on my watch list, maybe Nuclear Gandhi too, since I am at least familiar to a degree with these characters based on past skimming of these AAR, through its' likely on that regard that Nazi!Gandhi supasses Angelos in heinousness. It is possible we could get an entire page of these since it spans multiple eras and the HS can be a bit more flexible as a character in the 12th century won't have similar resources as a character in the 20th century(main issue there with Angelos is that he exists at the same time with some other nasty fascist figures like the Nazi!Gandhi).
Edited by xie323 on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:30:31 AM
This was just in case I missed some, also If I did vote on one of them before then my additional vote doesn't count.
@xie123, Nuclear Gandhi in that AAR is played for laughs tho... (Then again, so is Konrad Von Habsburg). Also, the Whore of Babylon has the resources of sulfur from hell, Supernatural Powers, the devotion of heretics, 16th to 17th century resources, and a lot of Germania, Gallia, Britannia, Illyria, New Rhomania (Brazil), and Crimea. He/She/They/It is possibly flexible.
Edited by OrrorSANESS on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:38:01 AM
I'll wait on Shandor for a bit. I wanna make sure everyone gets their say and I wanna respect the thread's decision on a contentious candidate.
As for your questions ACW, nothing indicates Shandor is Drunk on the Dark Side to a mitigating extent. And he never mentions the painting. Ever. Did he know the painting sank? He never says. I have given as much context as was given in the game proper. Ivo's castle sank, all his minions "destroyed"/sent back to the ghost world and he doesn't care. He knows that the Mandalas were destroyed and that's all he says. My interpretation is that the writers wrote him as someone whom doesn't care about anyone but himself since everything I can gleam from the writing suggests as such and no effort is made to make him more nuanced. I wish the writers actually had a moment where the Painting's status is made clear since then we wouldn't be having this problem! Basically, I'm treating the Painting as a non-entity because the game does as well. It's like the writers put it in as a Reveal without thinking about the implications. I don't think any of this was intended. I don't think they wanted us to consider it humanising for hanging it up or to make him worse for not caring it's destroyed. It's literally just there for a single plot point.
Hell, did he even hang it up? No idea. It could have just as easily been one of his cultists. But this is veering into way too much WMG territory for the purposes of this thread, so I'll just use Occam's Razor and say "Yes he did put it up."
I'm gonna ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Zurgo. For me, I'd compare him to Malachite whom we cut for his evil being undercut by his victims' reactions and his fate of being trapped in some restaurant forever. And Malachite at least has the pretense of being treated seriously for a time. Zurgo is sent to live in his mother's basement and plays the Trololololol song. I am not feeling him, sorry.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:42:31 AM
Gault & Afton
Changing to to Zurgo
Kind of reminds me of Queen Ingrith committing literaly genocide and her punishment was being turned into a goat. Granted that's not entirely played for laughs but still a slap on the wrist.
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:44:41 AM
On second thoughts, I'm gonna change my vote on Zurgo to .
At least with Archibald Snatcher, his actions are played seriously enough even if he had an amusing defeat.
Edited by CaptainPinkiePie on Dec 14th 2021 at 6:47:39 AM
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
He/They
I'm not going to propose him just yet, but Yaldabaoth from Persona 5 may just be someone worth looking at 👀
Well she's (Ingrith) gonna be an animal the rest of her life basically. That's not far from And I Must Scream. As I said before, Lotso has his And I Must Scream fate Played for Laughs, but Fridge Horror dictates that it's really not that funny actually.
Yeah, it could be poor writing that makes it questionable as to why the painting is even there with Shandor or even if not poor writing, at least with the writers or game designers it's a case of Didn't Think This Through.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
She is. nwo was giving an example from the sound of it, not disputing it.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 14th 2021 at 2:51:06 AM
Professor Gigachad
But isn't Ingrith approved?
I know, that's why I said it wasn't 100% humorous
Professor Gigachad
I see my bad there, the wording confused me.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Abstain on Severen and Alfred.
Keep Nazo
Cut Founder.
Was this entry in Hanna approved?
Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Dec 14th 2021 at 4:35:13 AM
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine