During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Mandle.
Okay, I think we've gotten all the baseline League of Legends champions. I'm cool with Jhin keeping, and others who looked like potentials—Aatrox, Cho'Gath, Nocturne, Vladimir, etc.—failed either because of redeeming/mitigating factors or because they weren't bad enough.
You know what that doesn't exclude?! Alternate universes! League of Legends has kind of a thing about alternate skins for champions, and those alternate skins often have entire settings of their own attached; little Elseworlds, sort of, sometimes with short stories attached.
Case in point! Here's a new take on an old friend.
What has High Noon Thresh done?
Part of the High Noon Gothic universe, a Western take on the LOL setting, Thresh isn't a human who became a demon in this continuity. In High Noon, Thresh has always been a demon and he's existed for literal eons, capturing the souls of innocents for eternal torment. Known as the Reaper, the Slaughter God, Old Turnkey, and Great Horn, recently he's been glutting himself on an "endless river of fresh-faced pioneers," leaving entire towns and their populations flayed while he keeps their souls for eternal agony.
It's "The Man with the Grinning Shadow" that gives him his ample atrocities; Thresh is still Lucian's arch-nemesis in this continuity, still the one who took the soul of his wife Senna. Just en route to Thresh's evil lair, he passes by the flayed remains of a dozen settlements Thresh has come down upon, and wagon trains whose residents he's left as "piles of twitching muscle." Lucian's attempt to take down Thresh ended in disaster—with a bargain for Senna's soul Thresh made and then broke solely for his own amusement—but the story ends with Lucian continuing to hunt for the devil that broke him so.
Any mitigating factors?
None. Nothing even close. He has none of OG!Thresh's issues of being corrupted, given this iteration of Thresh has always been a demon who's been eating and torturing souls for eons longer than his regular counterpart. Likewise, though his screentime's short, the short stories are giving him the lore and the onscreen villainy he actually needs to pass our terms. For an AU skin, that's not bad.
Conclusion?
Keeper. Depending on how many AU guys we find, we can file this dude with Thresh, at the bottom of the tree, or in his own section.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Evil Cowboy Thresh
Yep there.
- Guardian: Ta'lal is an ancient spirit, freed during the G Ulf War, who sets out to kill a destined child and damn all mankind. Taking numerous hosts, Ta'lal quickly burns them out by virtue of his evil, discarding the shells for new ones and leaving a trail of murder while refining a drug called "Chaos" with which he plans to repeat his greatest atrocity: the utter annihilation of civilization, which he performed long ago before his sealing.
- Spider Man:
- The alternate reality Hobgoblin, working for Spider-Carnage, gleefully partners with the Green Goblin to burn New York to ashes, showcasing the city as a burnt our wasteland with the Hobgoblin happily raining destruction upon all he can. Cornering the Daily Bugle, the Hobgoblin tries to murder Robbie Robertson and J. Jonah Jameson to set up what he thinks is a device to rob all mankind of free will.
- The alternate reality Carnage Symbiote possesses the clone Peter Parker, twisting and destroying his mind into a hateful thing who sends Hobgoblin and Green Goblin to annihilate New York. Carnage intends on installing a device to cause a chain reaction that will annihilate the entire multiverse, convincing its host that this is the only wya to escape his horrible pain and torment.
Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 13th 2021 at 11:58:16 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to this Thresh, and I'm thinking I should hold off on requesting locking the LOL page for the time being.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Btw what skin is the Mordekaiser pic from?
It might need it's own entry if it's from an AU like this.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Thresh, Ta’lal, and Colin
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 13th 2021 at 10:03:00 AM
That would be Infernal Mordekaiser. And, er, it doesn't seem he has the onscreen deeds to actually count there. We may need a new image.
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 13th 2021 at 1:02:39 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Shit, you're right. It's Infernal Mordekaiser.
BTW, for Spidey, should Carnage or Hobby go first? They debut in the same ep, but Carnage is also in the next one, and is a bigger threat.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I don't honestly have a preference.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Goku Black
Well thank God we learned this before we locked the page..
We can find a replacement pic of Jihn from Zed's comic.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Colin and Thresh.
Cowboy Thresh
Insofar as I can tell, BTW, the only other AU champions who qualify are PROJECT: Jhin (from the "PROJECT" stuff, based on "Of Rats and Cats and Neon Mice") and Dark Star Thresh (from the Event Horizon/Dark Star stuff, based on "Ambition's Embrace" and the general lore of the Dark Star champions).
Yes to Thresh and me.
And another Marvel guy. This guy is a major nemesis of Dethlok, a lesser-known Marvel Anti-Hero who debuted in the 70s, a cyborg originally known as Luther Manning—his appearances spanned issues #33-35 in Astonishing Tales, an extra appearance in Marvel Spotlight, and then one more where Dethlok and Captain America teamed up in Captain America #288.
What has Hellinger done?
Human name Dr. Harlan Ryker, Hellinger is the mad scientist who turned Luther Manning into a cyborg in the first place as part of he and his brother Simon's nefarious schemes to augment people into cybernetic super soldiers. Whereas Simon is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who seeks to sequester all humanity into a world of his creation to rule then as a "benevolent dictator," Harlan is a raving Misanthrope Supreme who just wants all humanity dead.
Harlan and Simon's sibling differences proves so much that Harlan devises to murder Simon. To do this he deceives Dethlok into believing he's an ally, secretly wiring Dethlok with a bomb that will kill both him and Simon. When Dethlok realizes he's been played, Harlan doesn't stop to mock his "ally" over having outlived his part in his plan.
Both Dethlok and Simon survive, but no worry; Simon ends up driven insane and carted off to a mental institution, which makes Harlan happy. Harlan reveals that he's augmented himself into a machine, dubs himself "Hellinger," and begins his scheme to create an army of clones which he's armed into plutonium bombs. When Dethlok jumps forward ten years in the future and teams up with Captain America, Hellinger is perilously close to unleashing this army on the world and blowing them all up, wiping out all life on the planet so he can replace them with his robotic "Homo Ascendant." Hellinger dumps Dethlok, Captain America and their allies into a maze, sadistically picking off their allies one after another so he can forcibly transform them into mindless cyborgs, before Dethlok finally manages to kill him.
Any mitigating factors?
Nope. He's the clear abyss to his brother's lighter shade of black and about the nastiest guy Dethlok ever fought. If he's not exactly the Red Skull, he's still pushing through with a decent rapsheet; attempted fratricide, human experimentation, and his intentions on destroying all life on the planet.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Hellfinger
for Brown, the Xenophobic Man, MODOK, Whiplash, Chucky, Ta'lal, Mandle, Thresh, and Hellinger.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Gantenmaru and Byeong-gi.
Yep there
Yes to High Noon Thresh and Hellinger
Goku Black
Hellinger
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Will he go to the Captain America page, or under Deathlok? Or just under his own entry?
And other continuities, or is he a Canon Immigrant to Earth-616?
EDIT: Oh, and yes to him.
Edited by ACW on Dec 13th 2021 at 4:28:36 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to Hellinger.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Hellinger.
Hey guys I am not going to be here for a while. My electric just got shut off, so I am going to be a bit busy trying to solve that. See you guys once that is handled.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to Colin. This film sounds weird. Is it at least the fun kind of weird?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread