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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#292577: Dec 11th 2021 at 12:24:20 PM

Yes to Alternate!Hobgoblin (I'm guessing alternate!Norman retains his mainline counterpart's disqualifiers?).

Fraser has what...only 3 deliberate kills? Not sure that's enough.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#292578: Dec 11th 2021 at 12:38:41 PM

@ACW: Fraser’s actions caused the explosion that killed two more people which were burned alive as the charred corpses show making his personal body count five including the three people he had already killed. Plus it was his actions that sank the sub to the bottom in the first place which eventually led to all but two people getting killed as they try to escape, including Fraser himself. As there were twelve people in the crew, This would make Fraser responsible for ten people dead. Also one murder was done out of a petty reason while another murder was very brutal and gruesome

Edited by G-Editor on Dec 11th 2021 at 10:41:45 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#292580: Dec 11th 2021 at 1:03:31 PM

But did he MEAN to cause the explosions? If they were purely by accident, I'm not sure we can attribute those to him. The first explosion seemed like an accident, and the second one probably was since Fraser himself got killed. "Terminal carelessness" does not a CM make.

Edited by ACW on Dec 11th 2021 at 4:14:29 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#292581: Dec 11th 2021 at 1:15:45 PM

It wasn’t Fraser’s direct intention to cause the explosion it would not have happened if Fraser had not kill that guy for an incredibly petty reason and Fraser shows no remorse in causing the explosion only just concerned if he’ll get the gold and escape the sea. Plus he did intentionally murder a crew member in an incredibly brutal fashion by beating him to death with a wrench. I think few intentional murders may be enough so long as they are done out of petty greed, apathy, slow and gruesome, and leads to the deaths of more people

Edited by G-Editor on Dec 11th 2021 at 12:40:50 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#292582: Dec 11th 2021 at 1:18:29 PM

Eh, I'm gonna have to lean no. Greedy, careless, lack of remorse sure, but...even with beating the dude with the wrench I'm not sure he does quite enough.

I'll probably be outvoted, but so be it.

EDIT: Fuck, I guess I'll try this.

  • Jhin, the Virtuoso: Khada Jhin is a crazed Serial Killer-turned-assassin who reveals a hidden dark side to the once-pure Ionian council. Originally convicted for mass murder in the province of Zhyun, Jhin was set free by shady elements in the council, and hired to serve as their "secret weapon" of sorts. "Mind of the Virtuoso" shows us his crimes through his eyes, as he casually murders four different people, seeing all of their deaths as a painting created by his gun. Jhin lives to kill, and as long as the Ionian elders have a grip on him, the law cannot touch him. His in-game dialogue also details an old plan of his to assassinate Shen's father, the master of the Kinkou Order, before Zed beat him to the punch. Now he wants to kill both of them, Zed as revenge for stealing his spotlight, and Shen to serve as his father's "stand-in". Sadistic and seeing no point in peaceful ends, Jhin is one of the sickest Combat Aestheticists to ever come to light.
To:

  • Jhin, the Virtuoso: Khada Jhin is a crazed Serial Killer-turned-assassin who reveals a hidden dark side to the once-pure Ionian council. Originally convicted for mass murder in the province of Zhyun, Jhin was set free by shady elements in the council, and hired to serve as their "secret weapon" of sorts. "Mind of the Virtuoso" shows us his crimes through his eyes, as he casually murders four different people, seeing all of their deaths as a painting created by his gun. Jhin lives to kill, and as long as the Ionian elders have a grip on him, the law cannot touch him. His in-game dialogue also details an old plan of his to assassinate Shen's father, the master of the Kinkou Order, before Zed beat him to the punch. Now he wants to kill both of them, Zed as revenge for stealing his spotlight, and Shen to serve as his father's "stand-in". In the Zed comic, Jhin's vile acts culminate when he gleefully bombs the settlement of Nanthee, causing massive destruction and countless deaths.

Edited by ACW on Dec 11th 2021 at 4:39:39 AM

Demonlordbelial mu Since: Sep, 2021
mu
#292583: Dec 11th 2021 at 1:40:09 PM

yes to the alternate hobgoblin.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#292585: Dec 11th 2021 at 1:58:07 PM

Can someone please clear up something for me (even the work page isn't consistent): In the new Bond continuity (with Oberhauser), is it SPECTRE or Spectre?

Edited by ACW on Dec 11th 2021 at 4:58:18 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#292586: Dec 11th 2021 at 3:01:41 PM

The film poster uses all uppercase letters so I assume it is SPECTRE.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#292587: Dec 11th 2021 at 3:44:59 PM

[tup] to Rumpelstiltskin, Bluebeard, Sidewinder and Alternative!Hobgoblin

Yeah I'll also go [tdown] to Fraser. Nasty guy, but if most of the deaths were unintentional I don't think three murders is quite enough.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#292588: Dec 11th 2021 at 4:03:02 PM

For SVU. Would this guy Graham Winger be worth a shot?

15 victims but the Hunting the Most Dangerous Game sounds pretty unique.?

I ask because I was looking at Robert Hansen's Wikipedia article (curious since he inspired the Big Bad of Dexter New Blood which in watching ) so checked and found this.

Edited by miraculous on Dec 11th 2021 at 4:04:07 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#292590: Dec 11th 2021 at 4:49:04 PM

Not feeling the Bond villain sorry, the Spectre discussion threw me off, I meant Fraser.

Yes to Hobs, however.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 11th 2021 at 7:51:48 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#292592: Dec 11th 2021 at 5:11:40 PM

Graham seems like he could be unique enough

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#292593: Dec 11th 2021 at 5:32:38 PM

OK I looked at the official 007 website and apparently the group is called SPECTRE even though the movie is Spectre.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#292594: Dec 11th 2021 at 5:34:10 PM

The movie isn't called Spectre either if you look at the poster the letters are uppercase.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/spectre_7.jpg

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#292595: Dec 11th 2021 at 5:35:24 PM

All of the Bond film posters are in uppercase, regardless of the actual case of the title

Edited by papyru30 on Dec 11th 2021 at 6:37:38 AM

ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#292597: Dec 11th 2021 at 5:39:47 PM

Huh that is so weird, nevermind what I said then.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#292598: Dec 11th 2021 at 8:28:45 PM

Changing my vote to no on Fraser

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#292599: Dec 11th 2021 at 11:41:01 PM

[tup] to Reza Izquierdo, Caliban, the Chains Cooper rewrite, Muhammad Akeem bin Fatah Kalamhi Ahkbah Sallam Fatanm Falla Abdulla Hasan Yassan Kwani, Ripper, Moloch, the Big O, Dr. Adrian "Dr. Death" Baker, Carnage, the Devil/Rumplestiltskin, the Bluebeard, Sidewinder, and Jason Philip Macendale/the Hobgoblin. Keep Leland.

[tdown] to Brock Mason and Fraser.

@STARCRUSHER99: Late happy 21st birthday.

Also, didn't realize that "No Trespassing" was a short creepypasta story instead of an officially published work. Reading it over, I'm inclined to go with a [tdown] on the Gardener, even if it's been a few days since the discussion and my vote won't change the outcome. Thank you for investigating the story, 43110.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#292600: Dec 11th 2021 at 11:44:13 PM

Belated yes to Hobgoblin.


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