During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
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to everyone I missed").
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What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Sidewinder
So Season 3A for Amphibia.
Beyond that, he was also given some slightly humorous moments whilst not completely dismissing him as a genuine threat, are notable such as him being obsessed with a book series Marcy introduced him to and as he was sending a "Frogbot" assassin to eliminate Anne, he also wanted him to bring him the newest edition to the aforementioned book series and some potato chips. He also throws a temper tantrum in the Christmas special where he channels his inner Kylo Ren and uses his sword to destroy a controller device when his plan on killing Anne was foiled.
- As for any other antagonists from the first half of the third season, I already mentioned the Frobot, or "Cloak-Bot," but it really just follows his initiative and tries to avoid collateral damage (at least until it pretty much did a "screw it" moment where it was going to blow itself up with Anne in a powerful blast that could have also caught others in its proximity).
- On Earth, we have a few such as the fabulous US government special agent who is after the Plantars due to them being giant frog people and all. But he is nowhere near being heinous enough and he has a good relationship with his assistant Jenny.
- Then there's Dr. Frakes, a mad scientist who invents interdimensional portal tech. A portal was created the moment Anne, Sasha, and Marcy are whisked into Amphibia, and the resulting surge in energy also resulted in a blackout. When she learns that the Plantars are frog people, she tries to dissect them.
Now as for Andrias' master...we learn here that it is named The Core instead of "the Night" as was previously thought. Instead of some freaky Lovecraftian animalistic abomination, the Core is a Mechanical Abomination comprised of 13 of the greatest minds in Amphibia's history. The Core was the result of extensive research — including imprisoning Shadowfish (to cheat death) and Moss Men (for medical purposes) — into perfecting "immortality."
As the true ruler of Amphibia, the Core wanted to use Marcy's body as its vessel (leading to probably one of the most disturbing moments from a Disney animated series), becoming "Darcy." With the Core...IDK. The issue is that it was comprised of 13 minds which makes it more of a Mind Hive situation and that could get in the way of them being a viable candidate sometime down the line. At the same time, however, we don't have individual members yet, and when the Core possesses Marcy, it speaks as one entity almost as if to imply that all the previous rulers were absorbed into each other becoming a singular being.
But, overall, that is all to report for season 3A. The second half of the season might come out in early 2022 at best.
Edited by AustinDR on Dec 10th 2021 at 10:27:03 AM
We have had cases of Hive Minds counting before so I do feel The Core should be fine in that regard. I got my own up in fact.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 19th 2021 at 1:27:09 AM
Bluebeard and Sidewinder.
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I think Dr. Frakes might qualify in the future as long as she doesn't have any more appearances by the time of the Season 3 finale, but since she's still alive, I agree with putting her on the wait-and-see list.
Also from what I saw, Andrias' redeeming qualities concerning Marcy are genuine as he didn't want her to be used as the host for the Core, so unless it's only for pragmatic reasons, it remains disqualifying. Season 3A also heavily implies that, because of his fondness for Marcy, he truly did care about his former friends as he felt very hurt when they left; in the Season 2 finale "True Colors" he even says, "The more you love [your friends], the more it hurts when they go", implying he wanted Anne to feel the same emotional pain he did by dropping Sprig from his castle. However, it in no way excuses his actions, especially if they left him because of how horrible he was, but I wouldn't say it removes said implication.
The Core is a tough cookie as Andrias' quote about it being made up of the greatest minds of Amphibia suggests it could be Made of Evil, or should I say, programmed to be evil. However, if it's a sapient being who just allowed Amphibia's greatest minds to be uploaded into itself (or, in a worst-case scenario, forcibly uploaded them into itself) and is controlling them as a Hive Mind for its own goal of conquering the multiverse, I say it could pass. The problem is, its programming is still too enigmatic to determine whether or not it has a moral agency, and, like the other villains mentioned, it's a wait-and-see.
Just an empty void…I'm going to still wait for the second half of Season 3 of Amphibia to air to make my final judgement on this.
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Dec 11th 2021 at 12:53:36 PM
Eh, good enough.
Sidewinder, Bluebeard and Runplestilkin.
Keep Leland. And maybe delete that from his character page if it's been copied from a wiki with no proof.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 11th 2021 at 1:29:08 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Austin DR pretty much stated my thoughts. Andrias is unlikely to keep unless his care for Marcy gets subverted, but the Core has potential to keep, but only time will tell.
Yes to Clown-Face's duo; Sidewinder; keep Leland.
Terhune's from the cartoon I believe, not the comic. Still, considering the series was only 13 eps, you're probably right about a trim.
I ask again: Is someone gonna expand Khada Jhin to mention the actions in the comic
? I agree with Mir that should probably be mentioned. Just
look
.
Edited by ACW on Dec 11th 2021 at 9:00:08 AM
Work
Dead Rising is a highly popular (at least until the fourth entry) sandbox zombie action series. Though this series has several heinous monsters under its belt, I want to see if the bar isn't so raised high to investigate some of the understated Psychopaths (bosses) in this series over a while:
Brock Mason
Brock is the True Final Boss and secondary major antagonist of the first Dead Rising. In the backstory, when the US government made a colossal error in judgment with its experiments to mass-produce cattle in Santa Cabeza, Brock was sent as the leader of a special ops unit to both exterminate most witnesses and the zombie outbreak. Brock promptly burned down Santa Cabeza into dust, making sure its story was never told and driving Carlito Keyes to madness.
In the main game, Brock appears at the story's tail end, sent in to once again silence Willamette Mall by slaughtering all human survivors and zombies. It is implied Brock kills most, (if not all), of the 40+ survivors you rescue throughout the game with only Otis Washington escaping on a stolen helicopter in the ensuing noise of his men rounding them up.
When confronted with Frank West after a brief skirmish, Brock groans of the former's persistence and how it makes humans tiring to hunt down compared to zombies. When Frank asks how much Brock knows of the whole conspiracy, he admits he was behind Santa Cabeza and callously states if he had properly killed everyone down to the letter, Carlito would not have created this mess now. Outraged, Frank goes on a tirade about Brock's lack of humanity before the latter cut him off and laughingly rants of humanity's foolishness - how life is fundamentally meaningless and it's all a game to him. To explicitly prove his point to Frank about how little he cares about human life, he sarcastically quips to him about how the job isn't over yet (i.e until everything is cleansed) and turns his tank's cannon away from him to instead annihilate a distant crowd of zombies. An enraged Frank jumps up the vehicle to stop him firing and they start their final battle.
Sympathetic Qualities
None. The big scene at the end that gives Brock most of his on-screen characterization shows what he thinks of his actions and everything going on in the story.
Heinousness
One count of successful genocide, a second mostly successful genocide, admitted lack of remorse and thrillseeking off the killings. Whereas all of Dead Rising's worst villains are motivated by Greed or hedonism, Brock only cares about having a good time with nihilistic leanings.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Dec 11th 2021 at 7:14:13 AM
Brock has gone back and forth in my head a bunch of times, but I can't quite see him keeping when he's in the same series as Hemlock, who does a similar cleansing operation in Los Perdidos (killing any survivors) and intends to weaponize the zombie infection against America in order to maintain his control over the population. It also doesn't help that we don't have a population number for Santa Cabeza, but we do have one for Willamette - 53,594 (I played this game religiously as a kid) - meaning that Carlito from the same game obliterates him in confirmed casualty count, even if it's in response to Brock's actions - at most, Brock is only a threat to like 50 people in the actual game. Throw in the other games and we've got Marion Mallon killing hundreds of thousands of people in Las Vegas alone, Isabela killing potentially millions of people in 3, both TK's taking part in similarly heinous acts, and Calder restarting the zombie virus in 4 - I hate Brock with a passion, but I gotta say no.
Also, your EP gets a crucial detail wrong - Brock's soldiers don't actually end up killing anyone. The note Otis leaves behind reveals that he managed to get everyone Frank saved out of the building, not just saving himself - and just as a side note, Brock isn't the one who aims the cannon at the zombies, it's clearly the tank's computer that did that (he's caught off guard and has to brace himself, plus he didn't know the crowd was there until he saw it).
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 11th 2021 at 10:29:08 AM
I'd really say it's ambiguous on the thing with Otis getting everyone out, if we don't want to look at it in a really depressing light
"Frank, while you were out some crazy people snuck in from the rooftop and started snatchin' people. I heard a helluva racket coming from where the monitors are, so I'm taking advantage of the confusion and stealing a helicopter! I might not look the type but I've got a small aircraft pilot's license. I haven't seen Jessie. There's no time to look for her now. I've gotta get out of here while the gettin's good. I hope you don't think I'm a coward. If we meet on the other side, I definitely owe you a drink. Good luck, Frank."
And also, on the part of Brock's tank being automated, after the first fight he openly states his disdain for the feature and vocally switches to manual control.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Dec 11th 2021 at 7:31:07 AM
And then to aim the tank at Frank he has to say "Aim main cannon", so he clearly didn't turn all of the automated features off.
In regards to the ambiguous wording of the note, if we only had that then yes it'd be ambiguous - but Frank's notebook still marks all of the survivors as "Safe" rather than "Lost" or "Dead", so the implication is clearly meant to be that Otis got them out or at bare minimum that they're not dead.
Yes to Baker, Carnage, Rumpelstiltskin, Bluebeard, and Sidewinder.
No to Brock.
Regarding the Core, there is a Marvel villain called the Supreme Intelligence who is the leader of the Kree Empire and is a supercomputer made up of the most brilliant minds in Kree history, if there was a version of the Supreme Intelligence who had the deeds and had no redeeming qualities, I would propose him, because I think the Supreme Intelligence has moral agency, same deal with the Core.
Edited by Overlord on Dec 11th 2021 at 8:38:03 AM

Keep Leland.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine