During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Easy yes to Urgot, both the Skeletors, as well as Waingro 0.1
Great work on the boney boy, lads!
Thought on this one for a while, wanted him to count for years and honestly, with loosened OV standards and a real broad sweep of all he's done and represents, I think he warrants a full-fledged discussion.
Hailing from that show with the incredibly awesome 3 seasons and no 4th season that really screwed the pooch, Sherlock, we have...
Who is Charles Augustus Magnussen? What has he done?
Played to slimy deliciousness by Lars Mikkelsen, Charles Augustus Magnussen—"CAM"—is a cold-blooded, shark-like predator of a man who runs a multinational media organization, CAM Global. Magnussen deals in all sorts of things, with his favorite being...information. As Magnussen himself notes, after all:
Magnussen is the "Napoleon of blackmail" as described by Sherlock. A collector of information that he stores in his "vaults of Appledore", Magnussen holds the collected information over any and everyone he pleases, taking advantage of everything from targets' disabled children to their porn history. Magnussen uses his blackmail to gain political and global power, but also to be a vile sexual predator and just plain bullying asshole to anyone he so wishes.
In what is just one example of Magnussen's grotesque nature, he confronts powerful politician Lady Smallwood with the fact that he knows that her husband—around 3 decades ago—was in a long-distance relationship with a 15 year old girl, to the man's lack of knowledge at the time. Despite her husband's ignorance and innocence of any real crime, having ended the relationship as soon as the truth came out about her age, Magnussen cares not, lording over the fact that he supposedly has the correspondence shared between the two—noting that the 15 year old was "yummy" at the time—and threatens to expose it and ruin her husband's life if she doesn't become another of Magnussen's "owned".
Just to assert his dominance and inform her of what she's in for as one of his blackmail victims, Magnussen gropes Smallwood's hand and arm against her will before licking her face, cheerfully noting "I have the letters, therefore I have you. It isn't blackmail. It's...ownership."
As Smallwood hires Sherlock Holmes to obtain the letters from Magnussen, Magnussen makes himself known to Sherlock by waltzing into his apartment, casually trashing it, and pissing in his fireplace while making him watch...Magnussen is also revealed to have been the one behind John Watson being kidnapped and nearly burned alive by thugs on Magnussen's payroll, Magnussen having done it purely to test Sherlock's care for Watson.
Later, when Sherlock is sedated in a hospital following a gunshot, Magnussen visits him and does his usual creepy-ass molestation of Sherlock's hands, dragging his mouth and tongue over them while sneering "You'll get used to it." As punishment for interfering in his affairs, Magnussen releases hateful information about the scandalous letters of Smallwood's husband across his media platform, driving Smallwood's husband to suicide.
As Magnussen later comes to reveal, he has blackmail information on Watson's wife Mary for her past work as a hired gun for government agencies, and under threat of exposing her to all of her past enemies to get her and all those close to her slain, Magnussen intends to hold Watson and Sherlock as more of his blackmail victims, hoping to expand his reach to encompass Sherlock's powerful brother Mycroft as well, all as a "Petrie dish" of experimenting how easily Magnussen can take control of a country through information and subversive media, London as his test run.
In the culmination of his dick moves, Magnussen forces Watson to stand and take it while Magnussen torturously flicks his face and open eyeballs, bragging "This is what I do to people. This is what I do to whole countries. Just because I know."
Unfortunately for ol' CAM...he lets slip in an egomaniacal smugness that his "vault" of information doesn't exist. He just uses his powerful deductive capabilities and memory—rivaling Sherlock's own—as well as network of spies to just learn the information exists, and that's all he needs. "Proof? What would I need proof for? I’m in news, you moron. I don’t have to prove it. I just have to print it."
Naturally, revealing this is his undoing. Sherlock simply grabs a gun and executes him on the spot, all of Magnussen's power and control gone in the simple pull of a trigger, as no worries for "backup copies" ever existed and all of his blackmail information dies with him.
Mitigating features?
Naw, nothing at all. Totally despicable creep who's sexist towards women, prejudice to all Londoners, and is the sole character Sherlock coldly, ruthlessly flat-out kills just for how awful he is.
Everyone regards with him revulsion, Sherlock says he's unequivocally the most personally detestable man he's ever faced, every scene with him is uncomfortable to say the least... he's legitimately the closest thing the show ever got to saying "RAPIST" in neon lights, lol.
Heinousness?
Sherlock's got Moriarty and Culverton as the worst of the worst, both horrid murderers of easily dozens, Moriarty targeting even kids. Magnussen's got jack shit for bodycount in comparison, so it's certainly a high standard to match up to...thing is, I think Magnussen's operating with a very much unique niche, and the loosened OV standards certainly help him.
Magnussen's a disgusting sexual predator, in no uncertain terms. He molests and licks Lady Smallwood and Sherlock both while indicating he's got further plans for them in that way, and his method of "owning" people is rightfully treated as a nightmarish, rapey existence, one where Magnussen can casually ruin his victims' lives and the lives of their loved ones—smirking at the fact that one of his victims has a disabled child he can easily target—lest they cow to his petty, sexual whims.
And yes, much of Magnussen's villainy is "petty" (man pees in Sherlock's fireplace to assert dominance lmao) but it establishes a very much fucked pattern of him being a nasty bully who dominates, molests and terrorizes his victims whenever he wants, however he wants. Forcing Watson to withstand eye flicking is just one of Magnussen's admitted torments, and he even further notes that his own assistant Janine is one of the victims of his nasty terrorizing and unwanted attentions, noting that "She makes the funniest noises."
And the effects of those who don't allow his sadistic fuckery to happen are shown quite clear: Smallwood's husband kills himself when Magnussen ruins his life by exposing the fact that the man had unintentionally had a long distance romantic relationship with a teenager decades ago—Magnussen not helping his "moral person" standings by commenting actual pedophilic remarks despite knowing her age—and Magnussen later threatens to expose Mary's past and have her enemies target her and all of her loved ones.
Magnussen doesn't personally kill anyone, no...but his brand of villainy isn't that, it's dominating and fucking with his victims on a daily basis for his own dickish amusement under threat of ruining their lives to the point that suicide is on the table. Magnussen's got a lot of victims of this nasty behavior as well, Smallwood and the lead characters well establishing the pattern behind him.
Final Verdict?
I thiiiiink with everything in account, Magnussen honestly can pass for being a different brand of villain that Moriarty or Culverton. Moriarty's the chaos-loving lunatic who commits plenty of various crimes, Culverton the hidden serial killer of countless people...Magnussen's a vile blackmailer who torments his victims in nasty, sexually assaultive ways under threat of ruining their lives. It's well established as a horrid existence to live under Magnussen's thumb, and Sherlock outright proclaiming him to be the worst person he's ever fought certainly helps his case when it's by no means empty statements from Holmes.
I'll say Keeper, myself, with all taken into account and loosened OV standing. But let's see where we all land, as it's not as cut-and-paste as "he's 'as bad as' Moriarty" when the crimes are different.
Edited by Ravok on Dec 7th 2021 at 9:46:16 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!For now, yes to Charles Augustus Magnussen. I considered him at first and saw him as detestable, but I couldn't justify bringing him to the thread since he didn't "kill anyone" compared to Jim. But with it laid out, I'm leaning yeah.
He is Thrawn's current voice actor as well. If he doesn't play Thrawn in his inevitable Live-Action debut we riot.
EDIT: Animated Spidey? Assuming it's the 90s show, there is one villain that really stands out. But I won't speculate and potentially steal Lighty's thunder.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Dec 7th 2021 at 10:19:13 AM
Yes to Charles. Also, I have an issue with the last sentence of this entry for Baron Praxis.
- Baron Praxis is the despotic ruler of Haven City, which he conquered by waging war to overthrow the good-hearted King Damas. Leading his people to poverty and suffering, Praxis's rule is so barbaric that even his own daughter attempts to betray him, which leads to him threatening to have her killed. Kidnapping civilians as part of his "Dark Warrior Program", Praxis has them infected with Dark Eco, creating mentally unstable Super Soldiers for his army. Ostensibly enacting his cruel ruling policies to keep his Haven City able to combat the Metal Heads, Praxis is actually supplying his "enemy" with Dark Eco to keep the war going and himself in power. Upon being fatally wounded, Praxis attempts to destroy all of Haven City—including his daughter—purely out of spite.
Praxis never intended to destroy all of Haven City when he died. When he activated a bomb that had the Precursor Stone in it, he only thought that it would destroy the Metal Heads. What he didn't know was that if the Precursor Stone was cracked, it would also destroy the city. His intentions for his final moments were to try and wipe out the Metal Heads, not take the city with him. In fact, based off what Krew says before the boss fight against him, Baron didn't even intend for the Precursor Stone to be in the bomb. Krew snuck it in there.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Feb 15th 2025 at 8:46:18 AM
Magnusson the rapey
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Milverton is just a black mailer their. He's hatable but doesn't pass baseline. Everything from the guys we have up is added on as blackmail doesn't carry the worse than murder it did than.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 7th 2021 at 10:37:49 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Oh yeah. I can't remember if I edited that entry when I got Kor up. I thought about bringing that up but I kept forgetting.... Unless I added that myself in which case I apologise. Yeah, cut that info.
Yep, he loved her and I don't think she was anywhere near Haven City.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Dec 7th 2021 at 12:41:01 PM
That said, this does make me think Krew might be worth an EP since unlike Praxis, he knew what would happen if the Precursor Stone was destroyed. (That and he sold out the city for Kor's minions to destroy even without the bomb)
I know Krew has a daughter in Jak X, but is it ever implied that he cared for her?
Edit: Ok, based off his character entry, he seems to have cared for her. Missed that bit.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Dec 7th 2021 at 1:46:53 PM
Yes to both incarnations of Skeletor, in addition to Magnussen from "His Last Vow"
Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 7th 2021 at 1:58:41 PM
has anyone proposed Dream from the Dream SMP yet? i want to know if the work qualifies for complete monsters in the first place.
Hey, you know? I got one we missed...
'What's the work?
Horizon Zero Dawn is a critically lauded open world action-adventure, set in a post-apocalyptic future After the End where humanity has regretted to near stone age style...with added tech, as robots also wander the land. Aloy is a tribeswoman raised by an outlaw, barely accepted and longing to prove herself...an attack by the brutal Carja kills her mentor and father figure, Rost, and sends Aloy on a journey to uncover the truth of the world and the mysteries...
She does. Let's talk one villain who makes it: Bahavas.
Who is Bahavas?
Bahavas or The Lucent Bahavas is one of the leaders of the Shadow-Carja. Bahavas was the religious leader of the Sun-King Jiran, a tyrannical madman, supported by Bahavas and the ruthless champion, the fanatical Helis. Bahavas was the one who gave the sanction and religious justification for the monstrous Red Raids, countless captured to be sacrificed by execution. Eventually, Jiran's own son, Avad, waged a war to stop his mad father and cut him down. Bahavas and H Elis fled wiht their loyalists and Avad's younger brother Itamen, establishing the Shadow Carja.
Now, the duo longed for a way to retake the kingdom but had no real numbers or military might to do so. Bahavas has Itamen and his mother reduced to figureheads and takes control. Bahavas forms a ruling class, living in luxury while the people suffer in squalor and diminished resources. Bahavas and Helis were contacted by the mysterious Sylens, an explorer who had found the lost AI HADES, that sought to wipe out mankind, but kept itself...subtle and played the Shadow Carja, promising them a rechance to retake their home. Bahavas and Helis founded the Eclipse as a result, a cult about Hades.
Bahavas and Helis proceeded to round up victims for slavery and sacrifice, with many dead from the raids....but desiring to "strengthen" the Carja, Bahavas had an assassin begin "culls." Having the weak, the sick, the old and even children poisoned to remove them...when a captain named Uthid found out, he brought the man in, but Bahavas quickly freed him, confirming the truth to Uthid....Bahavas framed Uthid and sought to have him murdered, killing his troops in the process
Now, Aloy finds Uthid and in tthe resulting quest, tracks Uthid down to clear his name. Bahavas comes to see them both eliminated, but after fighting their way to him, Bahavas fatally stabs Bahavas and leaves his corpse to rot.
Mitigating issues?
That's a no. Bahavas is nasty as it gets. Now, Helis and Jiran? We never meet the latter, but both he and Helis had a genuine friendship and Helis loved his wife. He was devastated when she died and Jiran had her and Helis's stillborn child's bodies installed in the royal crypt of the Carja as a place of honor. Bahavas, however? Was fully involved in all the evil committed and despite barely appearing, we see all the nightmares of the red raids and the sacrifices, not to mention the quest where it's revealed Bahavas has been poisoning his victims as a cull.
Bahavas's ideology and religion are nothing more than what he hides behind to cling to power, wiht a dash of social darwinist fervor. HADES is just an AI doing hat it thinks its best, Helis has good qualities...Bahavas? Nope.
Conclusion?
Yes to Bahavas.

Yes to Keldor.