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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#291827: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:08:27 AM

Sure to Felix. Escodebo not heinous enough?

CheerfulEmily Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#291828: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:11:04 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#291829: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:13:56 AM

Escobedo loves his children and isn't anywhere near bad enough (he kills 4 people, two of them being children)

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#291830: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:14:19 AM

@ACW Escobedo has a family he loves. I think he also has standards too.

[nja]ed[up]

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 6th 2021 at 11:14:44 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#291831: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:14:25 AM

Abstain on Enel. I don't agree that he isn't heinous enough, but the Automaton bit makes me weary.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#291832: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:18:19 AM

Sorry for the wait but I finally got it.

League of Legends

You guys can reorganize the page however you want I know so little about the franchise I can't really do it well.

Image and header?

Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#291833: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:26:39 AM

If you have a character who explicitly is a stoic sociopath in the sense of feeling nothing, not even a hint of sadism, but is remorselessly complicit in running a very very evil business just for money, would you say this character could still qualify as a monster?

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Dec 6th 2021 at 11:28:48 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#291834: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:30:23 AM

That's a very vague question. Sadism isn't a requirement, as long as they don't have any redeeming qualities and we need more context on this "very very evil" business.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#291835: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:31:56 AM

Ordeaux: I'd say organizing alphabetically is fine.

Sung-Hwan: If they're only motivation is greed? DEFINITELY they could count. Look at Cristu and Vera. Not Ax-Crazy like Tiberiu, but just as evil.

  • Amen: "The Doctor" is a high-ranking SS officer, introduced personally selecting German patients at mental asylums to be killed, smiling at his oblivious victims—many of them children—before sending them away to be gassed. The Doctor enthusiastically takes part in the planning and execution of The Holocaust, eventually taking up a position in a death camp. When the Jesuit priest Riccardo Fontana protests the Pope's decision to stay silent about the mass murder of Jews by allowing himself to be taken to the camp, the Doctor notes that he'll be the one to "decide who is a Jew", before forcing Father Fontana to work in the crematoria to break his spirit. Rogue SS officer Kurt Gerstein tries to secure the priest's release by falsifying papers from Heinrich Himmler, but the Doctor instead has Fontana killed and orders Gerstein's arrest.
  • Bloodrunners (2017): Chesterfield straddles the line between vampire and mobster, running a speakeasy where he uses blood as a commodity. Opening the film by torturing a victim, Chester removes his fingers and adds them to trophy case of others before murdering him. Having a group of crooked cops slaughtered when they attempt to blackmail him, Chester shows he is eager to kill anyone for his own gratification as well. Luring in multitudes of young women, Chester has them taken to his basement and slowly drained of blood as a new way forward for vampires where he can distribute blood and rule the underworld.
  • Shot Caller: "The Beast", real name Jerry Manning, is the leader of the Aryan Brotherhood in an unnamed Californian prison, engaged in drug smuggling and murder among several other crimes. Ordering one of his lieutenants, Redwood, to bloodily murder one of the guards as a display of his power, an act for which Redwood is sent to Death Row, the Beast promotes Jacob "Money" Harlon to take his place. Ordering Jacob to oversee the selling of military-grade weaponry to the Sonora Cartel on the outside, Jacob instead sabotages the deal so he can go back to prison to confront him. The Beast orders Jacob's family to be killed, then fights Jacob himself to the death without hesitation.
  • The Wheel of Time has the worst of the Forsaken:
    • Ishamael—aka Elan Morin Tedronai, Ba'alzamon and Moridin—is a scholar and philosopher who determined that the Dark One was destined to triumph over good at the end of time. With that in mind, Ishamael signed on with the Dark One's forces, eventually driving his former friend, Lews Therin, to suicide. Sealed in Shayol Ghul, Ishamael managed to free his spirit, and eventually his body. Ishamael makes the life of Lews Therin's reincarnation a living hell while in his Ba'alzamon identity, tormenting him with nightmares and doing everything in his power to make him miserable, while sending his troops to lay waste to the world. Following his apparent death, he is resurrected in a new identity—Moridin—and takes over leadership of the Dark One's armies, brutally punishing the rest of the Forsaken when they fail. Unlike the rest of the Forsaken, who think they will rule the world when the war is over, Ishamael believes that the Dark One is an Omnicidal Maniac, and is perfectly fine with this.
    • Semirhage, one of the most terrifying of the Forsaken, was once the most gifted healer of her age, but also a cold sadist who enjoyed torturing those she healed as "payment". Eagerly joining the Dark One, Semirhage's territories were marked by hideous torture, with Semirhage experimenting with ways to cause agony, such as replacing human blood with similar substances. Semirhage massacres the court of the Seanchan Empire, personally torturing the Empress to death, and tries to emotionally destroy Rand Al'Thor before the last battle.
  • Season 2: Eclipso, the ancient demon residing in the Black Diamond, is a malevolent being who savors fear, negativity, and corruption. Having corrupted and devoured the souls of countless beings, Eclipso opens season 2 by murdering the young daughter of Dr. Mid-Nite in flashback and assists the orphaned Cindy in forming a new group of supervillains after murdering her stepmother. Trying to corrupt the heroes into monstrosity, while killing one of Cindy's allies and classmates, Eclipso eventually attempts to merge the world with the Shadowlands to rule it like a god and feed on the souls of humans at his leisure.
  • "The Other One" & "The Perfect Decepticon": Megatron X, aka the Other One, is a Megatron from an alternate universe where he took the fateful decision of murdering his former friend Optimus Prime and claiming his Matrix of Leadership early in the war. With Prime gone, Megatron X proceeded to kill all the Autobots and use the AllSpark to create his army of "Perfect Decepticons", later revealing that he forcefully wiped the minds of the Perfect Decepticons to make them mindless slaves to him. After this, Megatron X exterminated his "unneeded" Decepticons and tormented the survivors Astrotrain and the Insecticons so much that they would rather flee to other universes than live under his rule. When the multiverse-hopping Megatron steals his Matrix to stop the Quintesson invasion in present-day, Megatron X pursues his doppelgänger with extreme prejudice, eventually catching up to him in the main universe and kills him with ease, calling him unworthy and a failure to his name, and relishes to repeat his genocide of Autobots and Decepticons all over again in this universe. Feared and hated by everyone, Megatron X is what Megatron would have been without honor or respect for Optimus Prime.
  • "The Immobilizers":
  • Kuon: Ashiya Doman, an outcast master exorcist and self-proclaimed rival to the legendary Abe no Seimei, is the architect behind the nightmare of Fujiwara Manor. Fully employed by the royal Fujiwara family until his power-hungry nature ignited tensions with his colleagues, Doman is nevertheless called upon by them to resolve their unease during times of disease. There, Doman discovers the meaning behind the forbidden Mulberry Tree, unsealing it in the hopes of gaining the power to prove himself superior to Seimei. Unleashing the Mulberry Twins and exploiting their loneliness, Doman persuades them to partake in the Kuon ritual, planning to exploit them after it is finished. Complicit with the twins in murdering his daughter Kureha, Doman uses her as the first component of the Kuon ritual, reviving her as an undead monster that kills at his behest. The inept Doman's failed experiments give rise to the Fujiwara manor being infested by the monstrous Gaki, ghosts, and other horrific monstrosities. Realizing he needs fresh sacrifices to complete the ritual, Doman lures his other daughter Utsuki and his own disciples to the manor, killing all but Sakuya, who barely survives the night. When Abe no Seimei herself arrives and confronts Doman, the latter gloats of his perceived accomplishments and expresses a perverse desire to make Seimei his Sex Slave after he defeats her.

Sung-Hwan Since: Apr, 2018
#291836: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:39:38 AM

@username257

Can't really believe I'd object to anything about the Slavers from The Punisher, but I'm wondering if Cristu Bulat's Pragmatic Villainy means anything to make him less reprehensible to the other two?

the guy is an unfeeling sociopath, as described by the main victim in the story, so nothing should be described as empathetic or remorseful. On the other hand, in the same bubble she describes him, she says he's nothing compared to his father. While Critsu doesn't object to it, it's stated later on that his girlfriend comes up with the evil Mind Rape tactics and he just runs the business.

he is extremely irritated when his father grossly tortures a gangbanger instead of just shooting him in one go, then tries to extensively reason with him to spare his accomplices since they learned their lesson. For a good remainder of the story, he tries to dissuade his father from random violence, but when it fails he tries to kill him only because he's a liability.

Oh wow, ACW read my mind on who I was writing for somehow in the middle of it that's really funny.

Edited by Sung-Hwan on Dec 6th 2021 at 11:46:19 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#291837: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:40:23 AM

For League.

Uh the site seems to group these guys differently on the work.

League of legends puts them alphabetical (in which case it would be the same) while legends of runetera groups characters from the same setting together which would lead to

  • Demons:
Those three
  • Ionia : Jihn
  • Noxus:
    • Leblanc

  • Shadow Isles:
    • Mordekaiser
    • Thresh.

Not sure what you want to go with?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#291838: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:41:18 AM

I'm not quite certain there. Cristu is still in charge of running the business in some nasty ways. Not to mention it's outright stated Cristu is the one who had the idea of taking women and girls from villages he and his father kept ethnically cleansing to sell as sex slaves, even if Vera made it worse. He had the idea to start the operation to begin with, even if Tiberiu is just as guilty in leading the militia.

The only main issue would be if Cristu and Vera's relationship was explored more, TBH. If Ennis delved into it more, seeing some genuine between them would not be impossible

Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 6th 2021 at 11:44:08 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#291839: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:47:36 AM

Personally, I say as is, all 3 slavers can stay.

Here's the potholed LeBlanc and Fiddlesticks. Lighty, do you have a link to that story mentioned in Fiddlesticks' writeup?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#291841: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:51:43 AM

Thank you smile

I believed you, I just wanted the link since it makes a better 5th pothole than sadist, IMO.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#291842: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:53:03 AM

Btw does Kemch need to be 244 words. Like the guy doesnt even have any events where hes the big bad or a major lore impact like Thresh or Leblanc

  • Tahm Kench, the River King: An obese water demon with an insatiable hunger, Tahm Kench lurks in Bilgewater's rivers and seas, stalking desperate individuals to make his next victim. Tahm Kench uses his charm to entice his victims into accepting his bargains before whisking them away to find fame and fortune...before coming back and eventually taking back everything they hold dear. While Tahm Kench's hunger yields no limits, his favorite dish is the despair and regret that seethes out of those that dare bargain with him. In his teaser trailer, Tahm Kench recounts a time where he tempted a gambler who eventually struck rich and was to be married to a princess, only for Tahm to return years later and snap up everything, from the wedding gifts, to the buffet, to his wealth, right in front of him. As he tricks the gambler's bride to let her guard down, he brutally devours her as well and mocks the gambler for being foolish enough to trust him. His in-game taunts are also particularly cruel and below-the-belt, mocking his enemies for the errors of their past, while tempting his allies to accept one of his ill-fated deals. Living only to satisfy his bottomless stomach, Tahm Kench has terrorized Runeterra since ancient times, pulling the same trick over and over again, and his silver tongue conceals a pitch-black heart.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#291843: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:58:00 AM

Don't forget about the EP Emily just did, guys (sure there).

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#291844: Dec 6th 2021 at 11:58:35 AM

Oh, and sure to Felix and the fanfic guys

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#291846: Dec 6th 2021 at 12:18:00 PM

Yes to Saint Batman, Felix, and The Batman Who Laughs.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 6th 2021 at 2:18:35 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#291847: Dec 6th 2021 at 12:22:50 PM

Made a tree:

  • Jack Ryan films: In different universes, the famed CIA analyst has dealt with some harsh enemies:
    • Clear and Present Danger:
      • Robert Ritter (papyru)
      • Col. Félix Cortez (papyru)
    • The Sum of All Fears: Neo-Nazi billionaire Richard Dressler wants to create a fascist superstate in Europe. His ruminations on history have led him to the conclusion that Adolf Hitler was a fool for trying to fight Russia and America—it's much better to have them fight and destroy each other. Dressler obtains a nuclear weapon and places it in a football stadium during the Super Bowl, killing countless innocent people. He blames the attack on Russia so the Americans will bring their military to bear and when Russia stands its ground, the two countries are ready to engage in all-out nuclear war on one another thanks to Dressler's framing and stroking of tensions.

Send to the drafts?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 6th 2021 at 12:23:24 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#291848: Dec 6th 2021 at 12:37:28 PM

[tup] The Batmen.

Forgot to do this but [tup] Omega Red image and the Trypticon quote.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 6th 2021 at 12:40:09 PM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#291849: Dec 6th 2021 at 12:54:26 PM

[tup] to Thresh, the first Venna image, Trypticon, Barbatos, Soundblaster, Saint Batman, Felix Cortez, and the Batman Who Laughs.

[tdown] to Enel.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#291850: Dec 6th 2021 at 1:11:12 PM

[tup] to Thresh the Chain Warden, Trypticon, Barbatos, Soundblaster, Saint Batman, Felix Cortez and Batman Who Laughs.


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