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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#290702: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:08:57 PM

Hello Deus ex Machina...

Anyway, I'm not sure. He DOES seem insane, and not merely Joker or Carnage insane.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
caio202 The Brazillian Dog! from Brazil Since: Nov, 2019
The Brazillian Dog!
#290705: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:32:25 PM

Bring up another villain from Brazillian telenovelas: at this time, Livia Marini from Salve Jorge.

What is the work?

Salve Jorge is a brazilian telenovela from Rede Globo, whose central theme is human trafficking, most precisely, women traffic to prostuition and baby traffic, setting place in Brazil and Turkey.

Who is Livia and what she did?

Being part of a extensive human trafficking network, Livia Marini is the head of a schemme of women and child (baby) trafficking, who presents herself as a socialite and model agent. Livia sends her right-hand Wanda to Brazil in order to lure poor women who desire to earn more money in order to increase their life and help their families, deceiving them with the promise of more paid work in another country. However, when they arrive in Turkey, they are brought to a brothel where they are forced to prostitution, slavered and suffer every types of abuse, inclusing physical, psychological and attempt of rape by her henchmen, Russo. Two of them are the protagonist and deuteragonist, respectively, Morena and Jessica, the latter having her house in Brazil burned by Livia forces, showing that she also threatens the family of the girls. She also has been sending Wanda to kidnap babies, separating them from their biological parents in order to sell them.

Livia also kills anyone who enters her path or can discover and reveal who she actually is, since nobody thinks she is the head behind the child and women trafficking. She tries to kill the police investigator Heloísa twice when she starts to investigate her relationship with the human trafficking: first sending one of her henchmen to shoot her, and later, ordering another to burn her to death inside her car, and later, ordering him to be killed too. She also kills Jessica and another character, Rachel, with a heroin injection, when they discover she is the boss of the trafficking mafia. Also, every prostitute who refuse to cooperate is beaten, tortured or killed, having even her family threatened. She also achieves to corrupt one of them, Rosangelo, into also becoming a trafficking co-worker.

In the meantime, Livia becomes interested in Morena’s former boyfriend in Brazil, Theo, not for love, but just obsession and perversion. But he gets involved with her just in order to take information about Morena and defeats her. But once rejected by him, Livia starts to harm him, spanking herself in order to incriminate him of aggression and send him to jail. She also orders another Theo love interest to be killed, at this time, the lieutenant Érica, almost having her henchmen thrown into the moving staircase. She also orders Theo’s elderly mother to be terrorized, with another of her men almost running over her, and, even though she says to take it easy with her, is not because she cares about Theo’s mom, but because the focus is destroy Erica and Morena. Also, she sends Erica a video of him and Theo in order to destroy their relationships. Livia's final card against Morena and Theo is kidnapping her baby daughter to sell her, since she sees that would hurt Morena by harming her children.

Heinous Standard

She is the one behind everything and everyone within the child trafficking and women slavering scheme. She lures innocent, poor women with the promise of better life in exterior to prostitute them and make their life extremely miserable, with every types of abuse (including sexual and physical), even murdering the ones who fail (such as those who enter her path, like Jessica), corrupting some of them (as she did with Rosângela) and, thus taking the girls from away their family, threatening such families. Also, stealing children from their families and selling them also causes major conflicts in the soap opera. She also stands out in her rivalry with Morena and Erica, what stop being a standard love rivalry to involve actual vile things, such as trying to murder Erica, framming Theo for agression and trying against the life of Morena’s baby daughter.

Mitigating Factors

Unlike Russo, who still cares about his cat, she has zero actual redeeming qualities. She had a boyfriend, Haroldo, but she does not actually love her and that love case was just for convenience, because he was linked to the federal police. Also, when he is shot by Russo, she doesn't care about him, but gets angry because this could get attention to the scheme, also pointing out what would happen if he survives. And when he survives, she does not kill him because he does not threaten the organization, but once he does not have utility, she easily dismisses him. Also, her “love” for Theo, obviously, is not genuine love, but perversion and obsession, as she did everything to harm him and who he loves. Also, we have so many female C Ms in soap opera media involving themselves in love cases, just because it is a cliché plot here.

Veredict?

I think that’s another easy keep on the Brazilian dramaturgy.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#290706: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:35:16 PM

[tup]Livia Marini

[tup]The Archons of Nürnheim

Watch me destroying my country
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#290707: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:48:24 PM

[tup] to Livia, the archons, and Brian Juno

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#290708: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:48:55 PM

Sure to Livia. What happens to her?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
caio202 The Brazillian Dog! from Brazil Since: Nov, 2019
The Brazillian Dog!
#290710: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:12:39 PM

Livia gets arrested at the end of the telenovela, acting as a stripper.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#290711: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:36:59 PM

[tup] to Colonel Mekum, the Cube Warden, Red Jack, Dr. Laurence Railsback, General Selbert, Heinrich Himmler, Lord Votan, the Archons of Nürnheim, Brian Juno, and Livia Marini. I'll also switch to a [tup] to Green Goblin.

Cut Matthew Linwood Brodus.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#290712: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:37:52 PM

[tup]Brian and livia

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#290713: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:44:40 PM

[tup] Votan, Archons, Juno and Livia.

Himmler can go before Totentanz, Gustav... I'm not so sure.

  • Vampire: The Masquerade:
    • Gustav Breidenstein, the longest-serving Prince of Berlin, is the unliving representation of Ventrue megalomania. Jumping at the opportunity to join the Camarilla after having diablerized his own sire, Gustav established draconian laws that often resulted in him staking vampires and letting the sun to do the work, be it for failing to properly introduce oneself to Gustav or criticizing his painting. Holding petty grudges against the other clans, Gustav started World War I to display the might of the Ventrue and to get rid of those who disrespected him while bragging about having the guts to do it. Losing his influence to his mentally-stable childe Wilhelm, Gustav became an avid supporter of the Nazis and saw World War II as another chance to get his revenge, the Toreador are still traumatized by the horrors that his lackeys perpetrated in Paris. Found by the Brujah-led Soviet Union and appointed as their authoritarian figurehead to rival Wilhelm's liberal sector, the capital under him is turned into a Police State where many vampires are blood-bound to Gustav and the sentence for any infraction is Final Death.
    • Heinrich Himmler himself is the Tremere Primogen of East Berlin and leader of a neo-nazi Anarch gang called the Final Reich, secretly using both sides to further the agenda of the Sabbat in Europe in exchange for the throne of Archbishop. A self-entitled beast of a vampire who promotes racist rallies and terrorist attacks, Himmler proudly confesses to have committed numerous war crimes during his military career as the right-hand man of Adolf Hitler. Wanting nothing more than to unlock the secrets to power, Himmler oversaw Project: Werewolf, where countless vampires, werewolves and fairies were taken to the Devil's Mountain to be experimented upon with the use of magick, radiation and chemicals. Himmler is also behind the feared Hunting Party, a coterie of sadistic and psychotic vampires that feast on their own people.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 28th 2021 at 9:45:29 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#290714: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:49:26 PM

Maybe put Gustav after Hardestat since their both Camirila?

That would give it a flow.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#290716: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:57:47 PM

Eh... I'm actually with Mir on this one, but I really dunno for sure. I'm satisfied with whatever you decide.

[down] I wouldn't be so sure of that... [lol]

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 28th 2021 at 10:31:38 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#290717: Nov 28th 2021 at 5:02:41 PM

Since we've probably mined that for all its worth.

I kinda wonder if anyone count in the ghe sorta spiritual successor Vampire: The Requiem

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#290718: Nov 28th 2021 at 5:03:57 PM

The fact Himmler's a pupil of Gustav makes me think they should go together?

Lighty, you're familiar with the franchise. What say you?

I wanna get 'em up with the batch tomorrow if possible.

EDIT: And now that I think about it...Gustav->Himmler->Totentanz->Weissrarech kinda makes sense, all the Nazis together.

EDIT 2: Which is what I've done.

  • Gustav Breidenstein, the longest-serving Prince of Berlin, is the unliving representation of Ventrue megalomania. Jumping at the opportunity to join the Camarilla after having diablerized his own sire, Gustav established draconian laws that often resulted in him staking vampires and letting the sun do the work, be it for failing to properly introduce oneself to Gustav or criticizing his painting. Holding petty grudges against the other clans, Gustav started World War I to display the might of the Ventrue and to get rid of those who disrespected him while bragging about having the guts to do it. Losing his influence to his mentally-stable childe Wilhelm, Gustav became an avid supporter of the Nazis and saw World War II as another chance to get his revenge; the Toreador are still traumatized by the horrors that his lackeys perpetrated in Paris. Found by the Brujah-led Soviet Union and appointed as their authoritarian figurehead to rival Wilhelm's liberal sector, the capital under him is turned into a Police State where many vampires are blood-bound to Gustav and the sentence for any infraction is Final Death.
  • Heinrich Himmler himself is the Tremere Primogen of East Berlin and leader of a neo-Nazi Anarch gang called the Final Reich, secretly using both sides to further the agenda of the Sabbat in Europe in exchange for the throne of Archbishop. A self-admitted beast of a vampire who promotes racist rallies and terrorist attacks, Himmler proudly confesses to have committed numerous war crimes during his military career as the right-hand man of Adolf Hitler himself. Wanting nothing more than to unlock the secrets to power, Himmler oversaw Project: Werewolf, where countless vampires, werewolves and fairies were taken to the Devil's Mountain to be experimented upon with the use of magick, radiation, and chemicals. Himmler is also behind the feared Hunting Party, a coterie of sadistic and psychotic serial killers that diablerize their own people en masse.

Edited by ACW on Nov 28th 2021 at 8:19:19 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#290719: Nov 28th 2021 at 5:42:09 PM

I am going off my fanfic proposals for a bit to look at an obscure horror film.

What is the Work

The Pool is a 2001 German Slasher Movie that is basically a bunch of teenagers going to a Pool Party and there is a masked killer picking them all off one by one and we find out the killer is.

Who is Frank and What Has He Done?

Frank at first appears to be one of the normal teens at the party but he is eventually revealed to be the killer. Frank has a really, really bad case of Not Good with Rejection. In the opening, he murders Catherine's boyfriend and then murders Catherine herself after she rejected his advances. He then took it even further as once Sarah rejected her he decided to not only go after her but all of her friends during the pool party.

Frank dons a mask and goes on a killing spree first murdering Kim and then stabbing Carter below a water slide. Then in one of his most brutal murders he kills Svenja by driving his machete through her groin from top to bottom we don't get to see it but it's made pretty clear what happened.

He then kills Mel then Martin then Mike it is also shown he killed a cop earlier he also nearly kills Carmen and believes he did for a while. In the end, he confronts Sarah explaining his motive but Sarah pretty understandably is pretty disgusted by this. The two get into a fight and Frank is eventually shot to death by Carmen who is revealed to be alive.

Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None whatsoever. He acts like a normal person but once the act is dropped he shows himself to be a cruel and vindictive man. His reason behind killing does not even begin to justify or even explain anything he did. He got rejected when he made romantic advances and the people who rejected him wasn't even that mean at least from what we see and his extreme reaction is murder. This wouldn't justify even killing the people who rejected him but he takes it to the even further extreme of killing all their friends, for reasons.

Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?

His body count is quite high even for a horror film villain with nine murders a few of them being especially brutal like the already mentioned groin murder. He also attempted to kill three more victims and easily would have if he wasn't stopped bringing his total up to 12, 9 killed 3 attempted. When it comes to the competition he is the only real villain in the film and the only death that is not from him is Frank himself.

Final Verdict?

Yes.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#290720: Nov 28th 2021 at 6:31:42 PM

Where did we set the slasher baseline again? Looks fine but I could swear the minimum bodycount was around that number and grizzly deaths are the norm, just want that clarified since we’ve had nos to nasty killers before thanks to that specific reason.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#290721: Nov 28th 2021 at 6:33:00 PM

The baseline we set was 5 from what I remember.

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#290722: Nov 28th 2021 at 6:45:24 PM

[tup] to Goblin, Himmler, Red Jack, Votan and Morten.

caio202 The Brazillian Dog! from Brazil Since: Nov, 2019
The Brazillian Dog!
#290723: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:08:40 PM

[tup]Brian Juno and Frank

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#290724: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:11:53 PM

Yes to Frank

I also believe that 5 was the baseline we set for horror because that’s the amount of victims from Michael Myers’ first outing

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#290725: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:15:09 PM

Seems lower than I recall but even if it’s close to that 12 bad killings is more than enough then. Call me a yes.


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