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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#290378: Nov 26th 2021 at 2:32:11 PM

Oh, I eagerly await that. Considering you've proposed, among MANY others, Ego; Wolfram; Be'lakor, Erebus, and Vect; Torquemada; The Godhand; the Slavers from Punisher MAX...

Edited by ACW on Nov 26th 2021 at 5:35:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#290379: Nov 26th 2021 at 2:37:41 PM

I may have a delay...

In honor of none other than the great Stephen Sondheim, who has just passed away. I might well have a CM from his works.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#290381: Nov 26th 2021 at 2:40:40 PM

RIP Mr. Sondheim sad

Another CM from him? Interesting.

Edited by ACW on Nov 26th 2021 at 5:45:41 AM

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#290382: Nov 26th 2021 at 2:47:03 PM

[tup] Stannis and Pyratin.

Just an empty void…
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#290383: Nov 26th 2021 at 2:54:54 PM

Yes to Set, Xvier, Stannis and Pyratin haha fuckin' Patton Oswalt CM, we've achieved Nirvana

RIP to Mr. Sondheim

Edited by Ravok on Nov 26th 2021 at 2:55:04 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#290385: Nov 26th 2021 at 2:58:50 PM

[tup] Set.

[tup] Xvier.

[tup] Stannis.

[tup] Pyrat.

RIP to Stephen Sondheim.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#290386: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:03:48 PM

[up][up]We haven't reached Nirvana until we have Adam Sandler as a CM. waii

Oh, and [tup] Set, Xvier (not to be confused with Xavier), Stannis, and Pyrat

Edited by CaptainPinkiePie on Nov 26th 2021 at 7:06:06 AM

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#290387: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:05:44 PM

[up] Honestly, it could happen. Adam Sandler did starred in a serious movie at one point.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#290389: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:12:05 PM

[tup] to Stannis and Pyrat

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#290390: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:14:51 PM

Alright, this is from the movie version alone, but it still counts.

Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd's...b-nemesis...the Beadle Bamford.

Who is the Beadle Bamford?

The Beadle is a lecherous, corrupt thug who serves as the right hand man of Judge Turpin. Now, Bamford is as involved in everything Turpin does. Not only is he corrupt, he's a nasty sadist who enacts all of Turpin's will...he's the one who carries out the plot to frame hapless barber Benjamin Barker to see him shipped to hell. He's the one who lures Lucy Barker to a party and ensures she's drugged so Judge Turpin can rape her, all while the Beadle watches with a twisted, lustful grin. In the original play, the Beadle rapes her himself as well along with Turpin.

The Beadle also ensures Turpin's proficiency as a judge by giving him people he charges...this is shown as he's the one who delivers a little boy to be hanged under Turpin's sentence. When Turpin, with amused indifference, asks the Beadle if the kid was even guilty, Bamford just grins and says "we've all done something, milord!" with the two sharing a laugh. Bamford also savagely beats the young sailor Anthony for "gandering" at Turpin's ward Johanna, whom both lust for...while Bamford ensures that if Anthony should continue, Bamford will kill him...

Beyon this, Bamford helps the delivery of Johanna to Bedlam house and insanity. As he tries to hunt down Johanna and Anthony when they escape, though...he runs across Sweeney todd, now a mad serial killer who has been waiting for the chance to get Bamford alone....and he offers Bamford a shave...

Before depositing his corpse down into the cellar to be made into a pie after "polishing him off," with a slit throat.

Mitigating issues?

In the play, there's one line where Bamford mentions he's pleased court is adjourned early because it's his "sweet Annie's birthday." It's unclear if he's honest about this, but the line is wholly absent from the film. And from the film?

Bamford's not just a lackey. He's a gleeful enabler of Turpin's evil. He's the one who has Barker arrested, the one who has Lucy sent to be raped and watches with a huge grin (the play has him rape Lucy, too, and...nothing indicates that's not true here. In fact, the insane Lucy mentions she "knows" the Beadle and has a tendency to offer herself to travelers, indicating the Beadle also still abuses her)

while Turpin sentences people to death for nothing, the Beadle just finds innocent people to charge. Including kids without a care if they're guilty or not. Turpin is nasty, but he's a perfect duo with the Beadle who serves him for sheer joy of it.

Conclusion?

Yea to the Beadle Bamford.

And RIP to the great Stephen Sondheim.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#290391: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:17:47 PM

Hmm...you know what? I'll give a yes to him.

Second for Timothy Spall after Film!Pettigrew.

I assume that line is why he doesn't count in the show?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#290392: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:19:22 PM

Exactly. It's possible he's just being self serving about it in public, but...either way, it's not in the film.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#290393: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:19:59 PM

[tup]Bamford

RIP sondheim

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#290394: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:19:59 PM

[tup] Bamford.

Farewell to the legend that is Stephen Sondheim.

Catermelon Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#290395: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:23:54 PM

RIP Sondheim, but yes to Beadle.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
TheJesterLord3732 Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#290398: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:49:02 PM

[tup] Stannis, Bradley, and Pyratin

Rip Sondheim

Edited by Mediawatcher on Nov 26th 2021 at 3:49:18 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#290399: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:50:09 PM

[tup]Bamford

Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 26th 2021 at 3:50:27 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#290400: Nov 26th 2021 at 3:51:02 PM

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 26th 2021 at 3:51:12 AM


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