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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#289826: Nov 21st 2021 at 9:59:37 AM

I should probably mention this about Blackbeard: He doesn't actually have Philip killed. He makes Syrena think he did so that when she sees he's alive afterward he can take her tears of joy since they're the more potent ones anyway. This isn't mitigating whatsoever though, it's still pragmatic and cruel.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 21st 2021 at 10:01:32 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#289827: Nov 21st 2021 at 10:00:36 AM

Man, I was going to propose Venna myself. [tup] to her. And [tup] Roxton too. And Happy bday, Lighty!

Edited by MasterN on Nov 21st 2021 at 10:57:17 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#289828: Nov 21st 2021 at 10:03:38 AM

Also would it be fine if we add a link to Batman Film Series: The Joker in the version listed on Fanscription?

Edited by Bullman on Nov 21st 2021 at 12:04:17 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#289830: Nov 21st 2021 at 10:40:54 AM

[tup] Venna

[tup]P’Gell Roxton

And...

[tdown] Emperor Banba

He is Bad Enough on his own, but his sucessor Geisel is worse on pretty much every aspect. Geisel does a lot of the same "Apocalyptic Attack to Take Over the World" from Toku Villains, but with a lot more emphasis on his sheer totalitarian horrors and personal sadism like playing a hunting game with innocent human atlethes.

More importantly, Geisel deliberately pulls a Eviler than Thou on his plans to genocide mutants. Even if Banba does "tolerates" mutants as a case of Pragmatic Villainy instead of genuine well care, that still means that Geisel is more of a genocidal bigot.

Heck, the entire Despar Army and their civil war with the Neo-Empire is basically the Despar Army managing to pull a Eviler than Thou by saying "Look, we're so racist that we want to exterminate mutants too and we're willing to kill our own compatriots just to get that opportunity"

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 21st 2021 at 1:46:43 PM

Watch me destroying my country
Drepag Since: Oct, 2018
#289831: Nov 21st 2021 at 10:53:08 AM

Hello everybody!

So I've been lurking through this thread a while and I have a question to ask if nobody minds! A few months ago I remember Lost Judgment was reserved for discussion, but now it's off the list and I'm not sure was it discussed.

It confuses me even more that a CM entry was added to the game's page, but it was posted with no link to the this thread and I didn't see anyone discussing it here around that time.

So my question is - were Lost Judgment characters already discussed, and if they were not, is the game up for grabs to write about in this thread? I think I'd like to try if it is.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#289832: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:08:48 AM

Bullman: Done and done.

Does Blackbeard's writeup need a change?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#289833: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:20:38 AM

[up]I say just probably change this sentence:

"On his quest to the Fountain of Youth to avert his prophesied death at the hands of a one-legged man, Blackbeard puts a mermaid named Syrena through hideous treatment for the purpose of gaining her tear, first showing her the remains of her own fellow mermaids and then ordering Phillip, the single man who displays compassion to her, killed in front of her."

To this:

"On his quest to the Fountain of Youth to avert his prophesied death at the hands of a one-legged man, Blackbeard puts a mermaid named Syrena through hideous treatment for the purpose of gaining her tear, first showing her the remains of her own fellow mermaids and then ordering Philip, the single man who displays compassion to her, supposedly killed in front of her to further manipulate her."

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 21st 2021 at 11:21:51 AM

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#289834: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:23:25 AM

Yes to Renna and Roxton.

Edited by YobabyColin on Nov 21st 2021 at 2:23:42 PM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#289835: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:26:57 AM

@Drepag It was reserved at one point, but the guy was unable to do it. I offered to take over the EP instead, but of course I've been busy lately. So, if you want to do a EP for it, then I'll give you permission to do so.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#289836: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:28:09 AM

[tup] Leo Steiner, Zodiac, Venna and P'Gell Roxton.

Abstain on Emperor Banba considering Kazuya's points.

Happy Birthday Lighty.

Drepag Since: Oct, 2018
#289837: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:37:35 AM

@Michealthehero 21 Alrighty, I'll try it soon, thanks!

Also happy birthday!

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#289838: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:39:18 AM

Writeup:

Crowscare: Venna is a cruel witch, who has a taste for human flesh. Taking residence in a forest near the town, she hunted down and devoured anyone, who got lost there, including children. Harshly abusing her son, Ingram, and turning him into a crow, after he refused to obey her commands, Venna later on started to manipulate a "scarecrow" child, Ryo. Pretending to be gentle and kind, Venna tried to make him pour her potion upon the statue of goddess in the town, which would allow her to take over it and slaughter and deavour the entire population of the town. Should Ryo refuse, she will try to sadistically kill him, and if Ingram will try to defend the boy, she will try to kill him too, gleefully tearing his face apart as a sick joke.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#289839: Nov 21st 2021 at 11:44:17 AM

  • Crowscare (link): Venna is a cruel witch with a taste for human flesh. Taking residence in a forest near the town, Venna hunted down and devoured anyone who got lost there, including children. Harshly abusing her son, Ingram, and turning him into a crow after he refused to obey her commands, Venna later on started to manipulate a "scarecrow" child, protagonist Ryo. Pretending to be gentle and kind, Venna tried to make him pour her potion upon the statue of a goddess in the town, which would allow her to take over it and slaughter and devour the entire population of the town. If Ryo refuses, Venna will try to sadistically kill him, and if Ingram tries to defend the boy, Venna tries to kill him as well, gleefully tearing his face apart as a sick joke.

Edited by ACW on Nov 21st 2021 at 3:05:39 PM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#289840: Nov 21st 2021 at 12:02:17 PM

Yes to Venna and Roxton. I'll wait for OP to make their case for Banba.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY LIGHTY!

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#289843: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:06:57 PM

Yes to Venna and Roxton

All done with Arcane and Cowboy Bebop (2021) on my end y'all, so anyone curious about discussions can hit me up via PMs!

Majorly happy Birthday to Lighty! Have a good one, bud!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#289846: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:26:14 PM

Yes to Roxton. Happy Birthday, Lighty.

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#289847: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:36:15 PM

Welcome, Drepag!

Just an empty void…
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#289848: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:37:02 PM

~ACW, I just made a page for Crowscare, so you can remove the link since I put one on the page.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#289849: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:40:39 PM

Yes to Venna and P'Gell Roxton.

What is the vote count for Tempus?

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#289850: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:44:44 PM

Pothole suggestions:

And that's all I have for now.


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