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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#289776: Nov 20th 2021 at 7:41:00 PM

Yes to Zodiac, but wait for now on Steiner

Will give Wells a bit more time since he's fresh, but in the meantime...

  • Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales: Armando Salazar is a self-righteous fanatic who seeks nothing less than the total annihilation of all piracy regardless of the level of criminality possessed by his victims. Scourging the seas for years in which he ambushed and slaughtered thousands of unsuspecting pirates and killed even the wounded, surrendering survivors with relish, Salazar was condemned to a life of haunting the Devil's Triangle after his death at the hands of Jack Sparrow. Taking his first opportunity to escape, Salazar massacres vessels across the ocean before forcing Barbossa to ally with him after sadistically killing most of the man's crew. Ultimately possessing Henry Turner to use as a human shield, Salazar tries to torturously kill Jack with the Trident of Poseidon and bring about a new wave of decimation to the seas. Despite claiming to be avenging his dead father in his hunt for pirates, supplementary material reveals that Salazar's deluded ego drove him to killing his own father simply for accepting bribes from pirates.

  • Pirates of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom: Ian Mercer is the stoically sadistic right-hand man of Cutler Beckett, aiding his employer in a scheme of mass murder and slavery. A lover of torture who brags of his dozens of successful "interrogations" after a prisoner kills himself rather than face more of Mercer's brutality, Mercer tries to track down a variety of slaves for the express purpose of torturing them for information on their home island of Kerma. Mercer and Beckett intend to find Kerma, raid the island for its massive gold supply, and wipe out most of the populace before selling any survivors into their slave trade. When Jack Sparrow thwarts the invasion of Kerma, Mercer giddily takes part in Jack's branding as a pirate before destroying his cherished ship The Wicked Wench just to torment him.

  • Grave Encounters and Grave Encounters 2: Dr. Arthur Friedkin is the mastermind of the horrors of Collingwood Psychiatric Hospital. A brutal authoritarian who ran Collingwood under harsh conditions and lobotomized nearly 150 patients under his care, Friedkin used the hospital to cover up his heinous, satanic rituals to transform Collingwood into a nightmarish gateway to hellish dimensions. Friedkin would vivisect patients and sacrifice infants in his goal to twist Collingwood to his will, and even after death he continues to haunt Collingwood, tormenting the spirits of his old victims while helping the sentient hospital find new victims for Friedkin to terrorize.

  • Lord of War: Andre Baptiste Sr. and Jr. are a father-son pair of wannabe dictators of Liberia, and represent the absolute worst kind of person Yuri Orlov deals weapons to. Andre Sr. is a cold-blooded sociopath who executed one of his own soldiers to test a weapon, while Andre Jr. is a hollering lunatic who drives around town firing on random civilians with his machine guns. The duo leading a bloody civil war that costs countless lives while indoctrinating child soldiers into their regime, Andre Sr. shows his harshest colors when he sends a batch of weapons to allies of his to massacre innocent refugee camps of men, women and children; Andre Jr. hopes to personally lead the charge, and tries to gun down an entire family for giggles when the opportunity arises.

  • République:
    • Overseer/Headmaster Kenichiro Treglazov is a sociopathic totalitarian hellbent on instituting his idea of order onto the world. Creating the underwater city of Metamorphosis, Treglazov lures hundreds of people to the city only to trap them there under threat of imprisonment or execution, forcing them to become part of his oppressed society. Burning books and cutting off contact with the outside world to further dominate the citizens of "his" city, Treglazov creates the artificially cloned Mirrors to serve as human data storage, regularly abusing, "reconditioning" or flat-out murdering them by the dozens when they fall short of his teachings, uncaring that the few survivors of his brutality later go insane or kill themselves anyway. Intending to create a surveillance state over the entire world where he will bring his dictatorship to millions, Treglazov proves that for all of his talk of "helping the world", he's in truth nothing but a controlling misanthrope who blinds artists so their best work will be of his likeness, considers even his friends expendable, and is more than willing to kill every single person under his thumb rather than they escape his reign.
    • Quinn Derringer is the brutal head of the Prizrak guard, tasked with security over Metamorphosis. A sadist long before his position, Derringer uses his power to frame hundreds of people for crimes they didn't commit to force them under his control, where he casually threatens and abuses anyone he can with glee, always eager to find a reason to "recondition" or put down Mirrors in his charge. Becoming Hope's most hated adversary for viciously beating the Librarian to death on mere suspicions of subterfuge against the Overseer, Derringer hunts and terrorizes Hope throughout the game before nearly killing her with his bare hands, intent on securing Metamorphosis's oppression continues for years to come.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#289777: Nov 20th 2021 at 7:45:12 PM

Yes to Gunner, Wells and Zodiac.

No to Vader Johan.

Since another Ghostbusters movie has come out, I thought another Ghostbusters EP would be in order, an Extreme GB episode called Ghost Apocalyptic Future featuring time travel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EEFmvVnr7M

Who is Tempus? What has he done?

Tempus is a Ghost that can be in two time periods at once and in the future rules the Earth as a dictator. Tempus has freed the ghosts from the Containment Unit, killed off the Ghostbusters, and enslaved humanity.

NYC is in ruins, Ghosts carry around humans in glass prisons to be slaves and only a few humans resist as freedom fighters. A freedom fighter named Issac attacks Tempus with a ghost bomb, separating him, with one part in the future and the other part is in the present. Kylie is sent to the future and the Ghostbusters cannot trap Tempus because he is not whole, they have to capture both the present and future Tempus at the same time.

But Kylie has no weapons in the future, so she is defenseless, so the present Ghostbusters have to bury equipment and send Kylie messages from the past to give her weapons to fight Tempus. The past Tempus gets a message from future Tempus, this is the day to release the ghosts from the containment unit and they have to work together to stop Kylie and the present Ghostbusters from getting the equipment needed to defeat him. Despite Tempus' interference, the Ghostbusters manage to get a proton pack to Kylie in the future. Tempus was about to free the ghosts in the containment unit, but Kylie contains Tempus with proton beams in the future and the other Ghostbusters do the same with Tempus in the past, they merge the two Tempus ghosts and trap them in the present, ending his reign of terror.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

Animated Ghostbusters has a high heinous standard, there have been ending of the world plots in both series, in Real Ghostbusters two different cults tied to summon old one demons, a guy tried to cause the end of the world because his girlfriend dumped him, a doomsday door opened and almost destroyed the world, the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalpyse show up and in Extreme Ghostbusters Surt wants to end the world and Achira infects people with boils that will become her children cause the fall of mankind.

The difference is Tempus is actually less powerful than those guys, he doesn't have god-like powers, he has fireballs, wind powers and he can exist in two different times, that is it. He won because he is clever enough to free the ghosts from the containment unit. Considering we see NYC ruins, he has more on-screen heinousness than the cultists in the Real Ghostbusters or Achira in the Extreme Ghostbusters. That's not bad.

He may not outright destroy humanity, but he enslaves humanity, considering we see NYC in ruins, we see ghosts enslaving humanity and he asks why humans are investing the streets in the present, so the future looks dark for humanity under Tempus' rule

Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?

Nah, he may claim to be a revolutionary, causing the great spirit uprising, but he calls other ghosts minions and claims to replace the age of humanity with the age of Tempus, nothing redeeming about this guy and nothing to suggest he lacks moral agency.

Final Verdict?

He may keep.

Edited by Overlord on Nov 20th 2021 at 8:01:10 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#289778: Nov 20th 2021 at 7:46:02 PM

Yes to Zodiac, Tempus, and Steiner too.

I remember my biggest gaffe was the first time I effort posted Molag Bal. I was very annoyed at the time when our rules weren't as well refined and he was down voted.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Nov 20th 2021 at 7:46:26 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#289779: Nov 20th 2021 at 8:17:38 PM

Yes to Tempus

Hey I have a question for people who follow the Marvel Comics. Has Monica Rappaccini been discussed before? I was reading The Unstoppable Wasp comics and she ended up almost destroying an entire city but I'd like to know if she's been discussed already before I start combing through her appearances.

ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#289782: Nov 20th 2021 at 10:59:58 PM

[tup] Tempus, new Ghostbusters CM cool.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#289784: Nov 20th 2021 at 11:04:56 PM

[tup] to Zodiac and Tempus. [tdown] Vader Johan.
Abstain on Steiner for now.
Belated happy birthday to Powermaster, and happy birthday to Lighty.

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#289786: Nov 21st 2021 at 12:18:16 AM

I've watched the episode and I'm not really sure if Tempus goes down the extra mile. He may pass the standard for the series, but there's that and there's passing the baseline. We see the ruins of the buildings, but there isn't an explicit body count, and enslaving humanity is standard Take Over the World villainy. Abstaining for now.

Also, happy birthday, Lightysnake!

Edited by Misry6 on Nov 21st 2021 at 3:44:26 AM

Just an empty void…
ReddishGuy1 Since: Jul, 2014
#289787: Nov 21st 2021 at 12:20:50 AM

With Zodiac looking to be on his way to being approved, I also have a post for a second Shozo Iizuka written up.

What is the work?

Inazuman is a Toku superhero series that follows Goro Watari, a man who stumbles upon a secret underground war going on in human society between two factions of mutants - the Youth League who seek to coexist with humanity, and the Neo-Human Empire, who believe the world is on the brink of famine and seek to exterminate humans so they can claim all the resources for themselves. After helping a group of Youth League children being chased by the Neo-Human Empire's soldiers, Goro discovers that he happens to be a powerful mutant. To fight against the Neo-Human Empire, Goro has his powers awakened by the Youth League, granting him the power to assume a fighting form called Sanagiman that can further mature into the moth-themed Inazuman. In the form, Goro fights against the Neo-Human Empire's Mutant Robots.

Who is the villain?

Emperor Banba, the ruler of the Neo-Human Empire and supreme commander of its military wing, the Phantom Army. Banba believes the world will be consumed by famine in 50 years (Inazuman aired in 1973, so that would make that... two years from now. Oh no) and thus seeks to prevent it by exterminating humanity, so his Neo-Humans will be able to claim all the Earth's resources for themselves and create a New World Order ruled by Neo-Humans.

What does he do?

Banba's modus operandi most of the time is to send a Mutant Robot, a psionic mutant converted into a monster (often unwillingly), to mass murder as many humans as possible until Goro arrives, becomes Inazuman, and defeats it.

In episode 11, Banba is revealed to have had Goro's Missing Mom brainwashed and converted into the Mutant Robot Rose Banbara, and deliberately makes her fight her son. When Goro manages to free her from her brainwashing, Banba executes her in front of Goro.

Towards the end of the series however, Banba faces a civil war from within his forces when the Despar Army, a group of Neo-Humans opposed to integrating lesser-evolved mutants into their empire, rises up and launches a coup against him. As his bases are seized by the Despar Army, Banba attempts to convince Goro to Enemy Mine with him, only for Banba, his elite guards and Goro to be captured by the Despar Army. During this time however, it comes out that Banba had already set in motion a plan to sink Japan's archipelago with a tectonic shifter device. Goro thus agrees to temporarily ally with Banba on the condition he lead him to the device and shut it down.

They then escape and Banba leads Goro to the purported location of the device, only to trap Goro in a room that will raise its temperature until Goro dies. However, Goro manages to escape, fights and kills Banba in a final duel, and shuts down the device before it can sink Japan.

Heinous Standard

Banba has quite a few mass murder counts under his belt, on top of brainwashing a mother and forcing her to fight her own son. His successor, the Despar Army's leader Fuhrer Geisel (who currently the sole Inazuman CM), is also a very bad person and may even be worse in some respects, but at face value both Banba and Geisel are cut from the same cloth. Both are mass murderers, both want the total genocide of a particular group, and both are ruthless tyrants not above taking away people's free wills to achieve their desired outcome.

Mitigating Factors

Banba claims to be doing what he's doing to prevent famine, but whenever he talks about the Neo-Human World Order he seeks to create, it's almost always followed up by how he'll be the ruler of that World Order. It's safe to say he's just using his purported well intentions to make a grab for power, and if he does care at all about famine, it's only insomuch as it affects him. A society that isn't starving is a much better one to rule over than one that is, after all.

Unlike Geisel Banba sees non-Neo-Human psionics as allies to their cause and wants to integrate them into his empire, but that's really just Pragmatic Villainy. He doesn't care at all about their well being, as seen by how he often kidnaps them and forcibly converts them into Mutant Robots.

Final Verdict

[tup], in my opinion at least.

Just imagine something here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#289788: Nov 21st 2021 at 12:32:54 AM

Yes to Zodiac and Banba.

Leaning yes on Tempus, but pending until I here thoughts about Misry's comments.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#289789: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:01:33 AM

[tup]Banba

Not sure on Tempus. Apocyplses are really common in that show...

Didn't we once have an episode where a guy nearly ended the world....becusse his girlfriend dumped him (he gets a Heel–Face Turn before you ask..). Otherwise his rapsheet is maybe a bit too bland compared to Apshai or the Vathek

Happy Birthday Lighty.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 21st 2021 at 1:28:54 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#289790: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:14:13 AM

Having seen Eternals—couldn't describe it in just a single word (it was silly and at times showed potential)—I agree that no one counts.

Happy Birthday Lighty!

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 21st 2021 at 1:18:09 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#289791: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:41:47 AM

[tup] to Tempus and Banda

Happy birthday Lighty

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#289792: Nov 21st 2021 at 1:45:40 AM

[tup] Banda

Edited by Mediawatcher on Nov 21st 2021 at 1:45:49 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#289793: Nov 21st 2021 at 2:45:22 AM

[tup] Banda

Abstain on Tempus pending an answer to Misry's question.

Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#289794: Nov 21st 2021 at 3:02:54 AM

Personally, I'd add to Door Gunner's entry the fact he shoots civilians simply to pass them as Viet Cong because "everyone who runs is VC" which make his actions sickeningly more excusable for him.

Oh, and also, he gives a technical explanation on how he's able to gun down women and children when asked how he's able to do it in a moral sense.

Edited by Kookosbanaani on Nov 21st 2021 at 3:04:58 AM

monotrematum Since: Nov, 2021
#289795: Nov 21st 2021 at 5:06:58 AM

[tup] Zodiac, Steiner, Tempus, Banba

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#289797: Nov 21st 2021 at 6:52:57 AM

[tup] to Steiner, Zodiac and Banda.

Eh, not really feeling Tempus. This sounds like a Power Rangers scenario where slavery doesn't really stack up to the regular "blow up the world" plot.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Nov 21st 2021 at 6:53:31 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#289798: Nov 21st 2021 at 6:54:17 AM

Yes to Banba but I think Duck's writeup is fine. He's got that he sadistically kills civilians, the point's pretty clear with regards to relevance for this trope.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#289799: Nov 21st 2021 at 6:59:00 AM

[up][up]The issue is these are 7plus works.

They can't really show the horrors of slavery that an adult work would do.

Which seriously hurts heinousness.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#289800: Nov 21st 2021 at 7:06:31 AM

Happy birthday Lighty.


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