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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#289501: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:17:16 PM

I will say I do think Maeve has a point like I do understand why everyone is so uncomfortable to upvote this but there isn't technically anything forbidding this in our rules, I feel if we are going to reject this we should probably change the rules.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#289502: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:19:32 PM

I'm just not voting for a candidate where one of the Animaniacs is raped. I just feel that even with the rule, there is still some common decency that should be adhered to.

Edited by AustinDR on Nov 18th 2021 at 6:20:14 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289503: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:19:48 PM

I'm happy to do that. We've been quite consistent in vocalizing our distaste for rape in fics based on children's shows.

This entire thread just feels like a horrible Bingo sometimes as to "which animated fictional character will get raped next?" Cross a star off if it's a MLP character, Lilo from Lilo & Stich, or Wakko Warner!

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#289504: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:25:45 PM

[tup] to Tess Conway, Clynn, Jimmy Stone, and George Rosten.

[tdown] to Andy Marsh.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#289505: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:28:26 PM

[up][up] This sort of thing could be avoided if more people made Sherlock Holmes/Frankenstein/whatever fanfic effortposts, and not those from MLP/Barney the Dinosaur/whatever fanfics.

In all seriousness, I agree that a hard no on kiddie fics with rape in them would be a good thing.

I will get to the Gangster movie on Sunday or so.

[down] Scraggle just expressed support for the rule modification, and so did I, just for posterity.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 18th 2021 at 9:39:25 AM

MaeveUrick from The Warner Brothers Water Tower Since: Oct, 2021
#289506: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:36:35 PM

I do understand why you're uncomfortable, but if you reject this, you should review the rules and possibly change them to reflect it.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#289507: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:38:25 PM

That is what we are talking about.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#289508: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:38:47 PM

If anything, this is a case by case thing: like I said, rape in this one where it is also graphically described, I feel is much gratuitous besides the fact that it happens to an Animaniacs character. Like why was it considered a "good idea" to implement something like that?

Edited by AustinDR on Nov 18th 2021 at 6:39:54 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#289509: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:41:23 PM

How about "no gratuitous rape of g-rated characters?" Something to that effect?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#289510: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:42:02 PM

Yeah, I would agree with Lighty there.

MaeveUrick from The Warner Brothers Water Tower Since: Oct, 2021
#289511: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:42:45 PM

I understand. If enough people here want the rules changed because of my proposal, I'd be fine if this forum amends the rules. I just don't think it's fair to refuse to upvote a character that is permitted according to the rules.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#289512: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:42:52 PM

@Lighty: I could get behind that.

[up] I'm sorry. I cannot in good conscience approve of the candidate, even on a technicality.

[down] Fair enough.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 18th 2021 at 9:47:16 AM

Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#289513: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:45:26 PM

I have a new idea for a rule. Anyone who, in their first-ever participation on TV Tropes, suggests a rape fic in the CM thread gets summarily booted.

Enforced immediately.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 18th 2021 at 9:46:23 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#289514: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:45:39 PM

[up]Agreed.

Also, should we remove that whole Made of Evil section in Cosmos' folder?

Edited by Misry6 on Nov 18th 2021 at 6:47:42 AM

Just an empty void…
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#289515: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:49:04 PM

Okay, I've got a suggestion for a writeup:

  • Discretion: We welcome participation and new participants. However, there is a standard of taste we prefer candidates adhere to, especially in the case of fanfiction. Ask yourself if the fic is in good taste. If it involves the rape of g-rated cartoon characters, the answer is "probably not" and please try not to propose from such works. We do our best to be fair and objective, but some things are beyond our desire to add and trope.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#289516: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:53:21 PM

Well said.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289517: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:58:41 PM

Appreciated, Fighteer. Absolutely agreed with a new rule.

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#289518: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:58:57 PM

[tup] Archibald, Treglazov, Not-Them, Tess, Jimmy and George, and clynn

And no to that fanfic dude, just no

And agree to that new rule

Edited by Mediawatcher on Nov 18th 2021 at 7:16:12 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#289519: Nov 18th 2021 at 6:59:15 PM

Definitely agreeing with the new ruling, excellent idea

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#289520: Nov 18th 2021 at 7:00:25 PM

I hope this doesn't discourage participation. It's fine to have a rough beginning on things, so welcome aboard.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#289521: Nov 18th 2021 at 7:01:03 PM

Just for clarification, has Maeve been banned as a result of this new ruling (The rule which I fully support)? I couldn't tell if that's what you were implying or if this is only for future posts?

Edited by jjjj2 on Nov 18th 2021 at 10:07:06 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#289522: Nov 18th 2021 at 7:01:56 PM

[tup]Jimmy & George

[tdown]the Warner rapist

For the record, I really don’t think posting an EP here should be bannable, just have it thumped. I think the user should only be banned if they get antagonistic or keep doing it.

EDIT: sorry, got worked up. Removed

Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 18th 2021 at 7:04:27 AM

Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#289523: Nov 18th 2021 at 7:02:33 PM

Yes, I did ban Maeve. There was also suspicion of ban evasion, but we couldn't prove it.

That rule sounds good to me.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#289524: Nov 18th 2021 at 7:02:35 PM

[up][up]Okay, there's no reason to be that harsh. We can just downvote and move on

Likewise, if I'm not overstepping...I think banning for ban evasion is good, but I'd be a bit leery of banning just for the EP. It's a mistake, but I think they cn still prove salvagebale

Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 18th 2021 at 7:05:57 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#289525: Nov 18th 2021 at 7:14:31 PM

[tup] Archibald, Treglazov, Not-Them, Tess, Clynn, Jimmy and George


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