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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#288901: Nov 14th 2021 at 12:32:11 PM

[tup] Becker.

Also, considering we're also talking about characters named "Beckett" and "Mercer", I got the reading equivalent of tongue tied for a second.

Edited by Beast on Nov 14th 2021 at 12:32:25 PM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#288902: Nov 14th 2021 at 12:35:02 PM

Let's just put Mercer in lit only and leave it

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#288903: Nov 14th 2021 at 12:35:11 PM

Mercer keeps, we’re not cutting Beckett until it’s outright said this is his canon backstory. Until I’m given that explicit citation I’m not cutting him just because one person is willing to overlook contradictions. This isn’t a Double Standard Ordeaux, don’t try and pull that out just because we’re not cutting him.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#288904: Nov 14th 2021 at 12:36:30 PM

If beckett has a different personality in the books than in the film, then I'm fine listing Mercer for film or novel.

EDIT NVM

Edited by papyru30 on Nov 14th 2021 at 2:01:44 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288906: Nov 14th 2021 at 12:59:09 PM

Um, that isn't what I said, I said it would appear as one if we kept Beckett despite the novel but qualified the film version of Mercer because of what he did in the novel can you please not misinterpret what I said.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#288907: Nov 14th 2021 at 1:01:03 PM

You said it would appear as a double standard lest we add an addendum to Merced’s entry. He’s an unchanged character unlike Beckett who’s painted differently by a different author. Stop insisting on technicalities. There was no misinterpretation of what you said and your posts are here to be viewed unless you’ve edited it.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288909: Nov 14th 2021 at 1:06:14 PM

What I said was.

"But I do feel if we are going to do this we should only list Mercer based on what he does in the novel so it doesn't seem like a Double Standard."

I am specifically talking about listing Mercer based only on what he does in the novel.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#288912: Nov 14th 2021 at 1:10:38 PM

Yes to Mercer and Becker

And, honestly what others said, it's not a Double Standard either way, one charachter is potrayed differently and the other is just the same but he does more, I think Rav could just write it however he wants.

Edited by Snoketrope on Nov 14th 2021 at 1:11:57 AM

Bow to the Prototype
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#288916: Nov 14th 2021 at 1:25:19 PM

Yes to Becker.

The most recent arc of SPY×FAMILY seems to have concluded. PM me for details.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#288917: Nov 14th 2021 at 1:30:41 PM

Yeah but having a character count in both well ignoring it for another is rather strange. When the novels are dubiously canon anyway.

We could just slot in literature.

[down]What I'm saying is just deciding to use both materials for someone...only to then ignore for the other because it would be dq worthy is really a not great take.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 14th 2021 at 2:11:44 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#288918: Nov 14th 2021 at 1:35:53 PM

Either that or slot it in "Others" like we do Haunted Mansion, since it's multimedia. This would also allow us to incorporate Pirates of the Caribbean Online in the tree.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#288919: Nov 14th 2021 at 2:08:45 PM

From the sound of things, the contradictions with Beckett are there when they're not with Mercer. Sucks if we don't count Mercer for both, but sucks if we cut Beckett. Based on the EP and the movies, [tup] to Mercer—I personally say go for both films and literature because Beckett isn't consistent while Mercer is.

[tup] to keeping Beckett as well in case that wasn't clear. Would suck not to have Mercer listed under both David Schofield and Gore Verbinski since I think they both deserve credit for the character too.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 14th 2021 at 2:10:31 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288920: Nov 14th 2021 at 2:11:34 PM

I'd honestly argue his crimes in the movies don't really push him that far toward this trope anyway. You can sum it up as "kills a few people and executes Beckett's orders while being a Smug Snake." Price of Freedom seems to give him that "mass torture" thing he needs to qualify independent of Beckett.

Edited by Scraggle on Nov 14th 2021 at 3:11:44 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288921: Nov 14th 2021 at 2:12:10 PM

[up][up] I don't think that you are intending that on purpose but that comes across as you wanting him listed for both just so the actors can be listed.

Also, I am wondering what is the consensus when it comes to links for the Web Original works currently I have them keep but I saw the idea of removing them was tossed around?

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 14th 2021 at 2:12:32 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#288922: Nov 14th 2021 at 2:15:12 PM

[up]Well the actor and director. If we can't though, that's alright.

[up]Well we recently went over the FS examples and agreed to keep them all. Can't really speak for the rest though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 14th 2021 at 2:16:49 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288923: Nov 14th 2021 at 2:17:32 PM

  • Deadpool: Francis Fanny is the supervillain behind Wade Wilson's transformation into Deadpool. As "twisted as a corkscrew," Francis begins as the muscle responsible for handling "rejects" of the Weapon X program, assisting the Mad Scientist Dr. Killebrew in performing grotesque experiments and lobotomies on the unfortunate subjects, including Wade himself. Francis grows to quickly despise Wade's defiance and forces him to watch as he lobotomizes Wade's only friend in the facility, Worm, as an exceptionally cruel means of cajoling Wade into performing a Mercy Kill on Worm. Taking the name Ajax after his first defeat, Francis carves a path of torture and slaughter across those who had escaped the Weapon X project, finishing off with the now-reformed Dr. Killebrew. Fueled by nothing but a psychotic hatred of the one man he couldn't break, Francis is one of the few foes of the Merc with a Mouth played with complete pathos.
  • X-Force: Yevgeny-Malevitch Volga is a cackling Russian sadist and a merchant of death responsible for, among other episodes of carnage, the Alexandria Incident, where three-thousand innocent people were vaporized by one of Volga's powered-up mutants as a "proof of concept" to potential buyers. Volga specializes in young mutants he tortures into "peopleweapons," including an unfortunate mutant who could look into alternate realities whose family Volga casually murdered, and a pregnant woman named Marrow whose unborn baby was harvested for "weapons-grade stem cells" by Volga, a fact which he delights in nearly breaking her mind with.
  • Marvel Mystery Tales: The insidious Professor Torture makes good on his chosen sobriquet by kidnapping the sons of wealthy couples and putting them through excruciating torture, taunting their parents with pictures and ransom notes. More often than not the Professor simply tortures his victims to death, ripping their arms off, mutilating them, boiling them in oil and—as he attempts to do to the Angel—subjecting them to the Iron Maiden.
  • Uncanny Tales: Don Pedro is a Spanish conquistador who earns his title "the Torturer" by inflicting agony after agony upon the native Aztec population. He whips them, stretches them out on the rack, drowns them, and threatens to rip them apart, sometimes to extents his victims die. When approached by a village whose population greets him with food and gifts, Don Pedro tortures his way through them and buries their harmless old chief alive.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288924: Nov 14th 2021 at 2:26:08 PM

[up][up] That isn't what I am talking about as you can see in Monster Web Original there are links to the work directly at the end of one without a page but looking at previous conversations it seemes that ACW was suggesting we get rid of them.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#288925: Nov 14th 2021 at 2:29:35 PM

[up]Is this like the fanfic thing with if the author takes the story/video down, we have to cut the entry? I agree with whatever the mass says then.


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