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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288552: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:29:26 PM

Yes to Jack! Welcome to the Edgar Wright club!

Alright, I got another Marvel for us today, and this time I wanna talk about a rogue who is exactly as awful in the comic as he is in the eventual movie we qualified: Ajax from Deadpool!

What has Ajax done?

Real name Francis (last name the equally embarrassing "Fanny" instead the movie's "Freeman") Ajax begins as an enforcer for the Weapon X project, specializing in handling their "rejects." Francis is also "as twisted as a corkscrew," a sadistic loon who sees the workshop as his personal romping ground.

Working alongside Mad Scientist Dr. Killebrew, the actual head of the workshop, Francis regularly brutalizes and tortures the dozens of subjects he's given charge over, and when he's not busy with that, he's escorting them to be experimented upon by Killebrew while watching with a giant smile. Francis also takes a disgusting glee in lobotomizing many of the prisoners, too, dragging them out as semiconscious vegetables regularly.

Wade immediately earns Francis' ire for his defiance and contempt, and after constant torture and experimentation doesn't whittle Wade down (at one point, Francis taunts Wade on his birthday by making him a cake and then squishing it in front of him, all out of spite) Francis decides to target Deadpool's friends instead. Francis forces Wade to watch as he lobotomizes one of his only friends in the workshop, Worm, then goads Wade into killing Worm as a Mercy Kill. Since subjects murdering other subjects is punishable by death in Killebrew's lab, Wade is dragged off to be executed and Francis does the deed himself with nothing short of glee.

Wade's Healing Factor kicked in then, and he came back to life to seemingly kill Francis, but that wasn't the end of it. Francis officially takes the codename Ajax, and begins hunting down all the Weapon X escapees, torturing them and murdering them one after another in an effort to find Wade. Ajax also murders any random innocents in his way, like an auto mechanic and two random skiers.

When he finds his penultimate target—Dr. Killebrew, who has since had a Heel–Face Turn and is remorseful of the monstrous experiments he helmed—Francis tortures Killebrew to the point he begs for death, and later on horribly kills Killebrew when he sacrifices himself to let Deadpool and his friend Ilaney escape. Ajax hunts them down in a mad fury, intending on torturing the both of them to death on nothing but raving hatred:

"I bet you ache for a little heat...I can give it to you...rub your hands together so fast that they burst into flame...like in Boy Scouts. Or snap open your lady friend...friction boil her blood...ruby shower in the snow....wouldn't that be so nice ...see? I want to help you...before there's too little of you left in one piece to help."

Ultimately, while Ajax kills Wade again, Wade again returns to life ends Ajax's life by dragging him into a river and breaking his neck. While Ajax did briefly come back in Deadpool vs. Thanos as an undead supervillain named "Abyss Man," Wade defeated him again and this time condemned him to a realm of eternal torment, putting an end to Ajax for good.

Any mitigating factors?

N'upe. Ajax is exactly the monster he is in the film, and in many respects quite a bit more viscerally heinous; Film!Ajax is a vaguely smug stoic, but Ajax is a frothing, petty sadist. The Weapon X project itself equally heinous in comic and in film, but Ajax goes much further than he did in the movie—he tortures and murders Wade's only friends just to hurt him and goes on a serial torture-murder spree of people only tangentially related to his attempted vengeance on Wade just so he can make things even.

For a Deadpool villain, Ajax is played dead-seriously. His name is made the butt of a joke like it is in the comic, but it's also the lynchpin for Ajax's cruelest, most sadistic deeds—Ajax himself is never, ever played for laughs. The psycho he warped Wade into becoming is played entirely straight and there's no other villain in the 616 continuity to have affected Wade as personally as this.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Nov 12th 2021 at 3:30:59 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#288553: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:29:36 PM

Kirby: That's correct. Even if not a CM, Zeref contributes to the heinous standard.

Yes to Jack. (EDIT: And Ajax.)

Edited by ACW on Nov 12th 2021 at 5:30:37 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#288554: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:31:52 PM

Definite [tup]Ajax.

He is indeed the worst villain that Deadpool fights by a longshot.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288556: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:35:20 PM

[tup] Ajax, weird it took so long for him to be proposed.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#288558: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:36:19 PM

Huh, always thought Ajax was made up for the movie. Either way, [tup] to him.

It's Spooky Month!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#288560: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:43:03 PM

EP time.

What's the work ?

Wicked Saints is a 2019 fantasy novel by Emily A. Duncan. It is the first book of the Something Dark and Holy trilogy.

The book follows the adventure of a young cleric, Nadezhda "Nadya" Lapteva, from the religious Russian-inspired country Kalyazin, as she wrestles with her faith in a "land of heretics", the Polish-inspired blood magic kingdom Tranavia, with which Kalyazin has been at war with for decades. She ends up involved in not only the politics of the war between the countries, but between the gods whose voices she can hear.

My candidate is from all three books of the trilogy.

Who is Chyrnog?

The God of entropy and chaos who is you know based on /supposed to be Chernobog. Chyrnog desired to consume everything that lives so he can bask in the ending of all life for the evulz. For his crimes, Chyrnog was sealed by four clerics but Chyrnog is ever patient and when Serren dies and is brought back to life. He attaches himself to Serren. This isn't the host he wants though. Chyrnog wants control of the black vulture aka Malachiasz who's Serren's brother and love interest to Nadya.

He along with the War God Veylos tricks Serren into killing Malachiasz, which leads to Chyrnog taking over Malachiasz to revive him. With them now sharing a body. They then procede to kill Maryazana, the goddess of death.

Now he starts to take control of Malachiasz and forces him to kill innocents and consume them to increase his power and drink in his agony. Meanwhile he sends some of his minions to attack two populated cities, planning to destroy them and use the loss of innocents to empower himself further.

Meanwhile he torments Malachiasz. Revealing he plans to have him kill his lover Nadya and consume her. Both to take out a potential threat and to fuck with him.

Anyway the Big Good Pelagia removes Malachiasz soul and sends it away to an island as Chyrnog consuming it will give him full control of his body. Currently Malachiasz heart and mind is able to keep him contained.

Anyway the heroes unite and Nadya separates Malachiasz and Chyrnog from each other. Realizing only four magic users can beat him. Nadya, Serren, Malachiasz and another trap him inside a church while he takes his true form of an amorphous sludge monster thing...

Nadya sacrifices herself to have him consume her. But her powers counteract and severely weaken him enough as planned that Malachiasz can finish the seal which spits her out.

Mitigating qualities ?

He's a sadistic creep who gets off on hurting people. Gods here were once humans who ascended to divinity and he has full agency. He just chooses to make people suffer.

No redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Heinous standards?

Okay so no one is innocent in this trilogy. Serren massacres a monastery to find the reputed cleric that could defeat Travania. Malachiasz is a spy master who runs vultures who specialize in torture and manipulated king Izak into bleeding and experimenting on thousands in order to rise to godhood so he can protect his country. Even Nadya loses control of her powers and leads to dozens of deaths....

But for all their flaws. They are good people who are trying to help. Chyrnog in contrast has nothing and in terms of scale of crimes blows them all away seeking nothing less than the end of everything.

King Izak might count too but ill think about it.

Conclusion?

Another easy ya keeper.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 12th 2021 at 2:45:12 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#288561: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:44:44 PM

[tup]Jabba, Jack, and Francis.

Edited by CaptainPinkiePie on Nov 12th 2021 at 6:45:39 AM

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288562: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:46:39 PM

[tup] Jabba the Hutt (Surprised to see a version of him that counted) and Ajax. Man, and I thought only the movie version of him counted.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#288563: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:50:37 PM

Happy yes to Who: Chyrnbog there.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#288564: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:00:42 PM

[tup] to Jack, Ajax/Francis Fanny, and Chyrnog.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#288565: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:05:14 PM

Yes to Ajax and Chyrnog and a big one to Jack! I'll have his writeup done sometime tomorrow.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#288566: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:15:49 PM

Jack's one of those quality over quantity ones.

Yes to the Fantasia villain. Could that War God count?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#288567: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:23:44 PM

Btw unless somebody’s already done it, I’m calling the new Marvel Zombies animated series.

[tup] Chyrnog

Edited by therealjackieboy on Nov 12th 2021 at 3:24:08 AM

It's Spooky Month!
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#288568: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:28:15 PM

[tup] to Ajax and Chyrnog (series sounds interesting).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#288569: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:29:57 PM

Nope. Veylos is not only not heinous enough as he's not actually involved in anything Chyrnog pulls.

He's also Affably Evil and helps stop him.

Though stay tuned as you'll be seeing him make an appearance on the other thread....

Edited by miraculous on Nov 12th 2021 at 3:32:00 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#288570: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:30:46 PM

[tup] Shakesphere!Jabba, Shakesphere!Palpatine. Suprised the former ends up qualifying given his Hidden Depths in canon and legends.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#288572: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:34:11 PM

Easy yep to Ajax and Chyrnog!

Aight I guess I'll call the Spider-Man: Freshman Year animated series, no idea what they'll do with it but it's got some potential I'm sure.

Edited by Ravok on Nov 12th 2021 at 3:38:38 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#288573: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:34:57 PM

Yes to Shakesphere!Star Wars duo, Ajax and Chyrnog

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#288574: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:35:07 PM

[tup] Chyrnog, Francis The Cake-squisher Fanny, and Jack. Damn Matt Smith you scary; kinda sad that “young Palpatine” rumor turned out to be bunk now.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#288575: Nov 12th 2021 at 3:40:26 PM

[tup]Ajax & Chyrnog

Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 12th 2021 at 3:40:37 AM


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