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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#288526: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:04:44 PM

@ACW: More than cool with you taking Tarkin. He counts, naturally! Even gets an extended monologue over how much he wants to hear Leia scream and how he was a major proponent to the founding of the Empire alongside Vader and Palps.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#288528: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:05:25 PM

Yup, CPOS but loves his boy. Yes to the Shakespearean lump of flesh tho!

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#288529: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:06:05 PM

Oh, good smile

I can't promise I'll get to it this weekend, or this month, but I'll try and get to it by the end of this year.

It's this, right?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#288530: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:18:27 PM

Yes to Jabba.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288531: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:26:46 PM

[tup] Jabba, weird to see a version of him finally counting.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#288532: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:27:33 PM

@ACW Yes, that's the right book.

Pertaining to Lord of War, what applies? CM and MB Team Up and CM Team Up? Does MB Versus CM count too?

Also, pertaining to Blood Diamond, just MB Versus CM?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 12th 2021 at 1:29:37 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#288533: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:31:10 PM

What I wanna know is when we get a list of works that have a CM and MB but they don't interact? I think this should be made immediately!

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#288534: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:32:22 PM

Yes to Aldoron, Fergal, and Jabba.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 12th 2021 at 3:33:38 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#288536: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:35:48 PM

[up][up][up]Well we have occasions where even if the CMs and/or MBs don't meet, they're still on the same or opposite sides and that's prominent enough it can still be a Team Up or Versus in those cases.

As for times when there's multiples and they're neither? That's a little harder to suss out. Absolutely still possible though.

So for Blood Diamond, CM and MB Team Up doesn't apply, right?

[down]I got the sense you were joking in your other post and yet I still answered. Haha. Are you…still joking now though?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 12th 2021 at 1:43:52 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#288537: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:37:49 PM

I think we should delete all of the sandboxes and only focus on this.

Edit: Nope, let's take it a step further and stop proposing stuff until this is 100% complete!

Edited by 43110 on Nov 12th 2021 at 9:43:28 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#288538: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:54:09 PM

Aye, tis Star Wars in the greatest bard's hand
A work that is renowned throughout the lands
From pole to pole and sea to shining sea
Why 'tis not more well-known is vexing me

Should this be put on film I would be pleased
And it might cause many complaints to ease
T'would truly catch the classical spirit
Of George's vision, and show the world it

And this work has some true dastardly knaves
Who like Iago and Richard earned raves
As villains who are truly grand to see
But lacking in any good, verily

Now let me make my stance clear while I live
Regret! That I have but one vote to give

Alright, I had my fun. [tup] to Palps and Jabba

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Nov 12th 2021 at 1:55:12 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#288539: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:54:22 PM

Okay, so...

What's the work?

Last Night in Soho is the latest film by Edgar Wright. A thriller, horror and a ghost story of the past... Eloise "Ellie" Turner is an aspiring designer, who grapples with the ghosts of the past. Namely, her mother's suicide....

Ellie arrives in downtown London near the Soho nightclub, where she has vivid dreams of reliving the past...of a woman named Sandie who wanted to be a singer at the club. Unfortunately, Sandie's life took a horrible turn and the man responsible?

Jack.

Who is Jack?

A handsome, debonair, charming teddy boy. A manager at the Soho club, Jack takes to Sandie's dancing skills and charismatic stage presence. Jack won Sandie over with his charm, his charisma, his promises to make her a star...until she saw the red flags...

Oh, Jack isn't a good man. Jack's not even a good manager. What Jack is? Is a predator. A ruthless, cruel pimp who targets impressionable women to profit off of them in the wost way possible, making them dependent upon him and using them for money...

Despite being Sandie's boyfriend, Jack began to pimp Sandie out to abusive men. A few at first, then more...dozens of men, maybe a hundred, forcing Sandie out to be abused and raped over and over again while continuing to abuse her himself.

Finally, an argument between them culminated in Jack trying to murder Sandie. She fought back, took his knife and stabbed him to death, over a hundred wounds. Jack's angry soul remained, with the souls of the other men Sandie killed, abusive men she lured to her, killed them and hid under her floorboards.

Jack haunts Ellie in modern day, seeking to have his revenge...ultimately, however, Ellie refuses to kill the elderly Sandie and decries the notion Jack and the others are victims. Instead, Sandie dies in the fire with Jack and the ghosts gone...

The final shot shows Sandy able to visit Ellie, now a fashion designer, showing herself in her mirror, suggesting Jack's hold is forever broken.

Mitigating issues?

Jack is an abusive, cruel pimp who is superficially charming, but that's it. I should note that it's only implied the other girls are forced into it like Sandy was, thanks to select lines of dialogue and a police lieutenant, Lindsay, giving Sandy a warning to get clear of Jack...

But...I don't think it matters. Jack abused Sandy horribly, tried to murder her and pimped her out. I see little functional difference in having one victim raped a hundred times and having over a hundred victims. Jack's ghost's cruelty speaks for itself as well and there's really no issus for heinousness, nor any good qualities Jack has, not remotely

Conclusion?

And a keeper to Jack.

Kirby-Israel Since: Nov, 2021
#288540: Nov 12th 2021 at 1:54:22 PM

[tup]Jabba. Wow, never thought that he'd ever be a CM.

I mean, asides from loved ones, there was that one book where he used his fat body to save a friend and partner in crime by keeping him warm during the cold.

Also, he gave Han a shit-ton of chances, and only went after him when Han racked up a huge debt. It's just good business.

And @ACW, I apologize again about the write-up, and while Zeref is anything but a CM, he still had a very high attempted bodycount so I had to mention him when discussing heinousness.

Also, [tup] Jack.

Edited by Kirby-Israel on Nov 12th 2021 at 1:56:21 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#288544: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:06:07 PM

Lord of War would be just CM/CM team up and CM/MB team up...Yuri is distasteful of the Baptistes but never actually turns on them or is flat-out against them, any tensions come from his brother or Andre Jr. being a trigger-happy nut.

Lemme abstain on Soho for now, I'm positive the proposal is stellar but I'm hoping to see it next week and trying best to avoid spoilers!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#288545: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:08:39 PM

holy hell 90s X-Men is coming back. I can't believe it.

ahem.

Yes to Shakespearean Jabba.

And absolutely yes to Jack. I envy that Lighty and 43110 reserved this film. I gotta get on that quicker.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#288547: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:10:26 PM

Apologies for offtopic, but I got curious of the Super Robot Wars: Original Generation and one of the CMs named "Lubikka Hakkinen" who has a Finnish surname (and another character mentioned in his entry has a Finnish first name Tytti) since I'm Finnish myself. Is there anyone familiar with the work I can DM out here just for a quick question?

P.S: Another character I was surprised to see getting approved here was "Heikki Nieminen" from Johan Falk series who is a Finnish character played by a Finnish actor but that work has more info online.

Edited by Kookosbanaani on Nov 12th 2021 at 2:10:52 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#288550: Nov 12th 2021 at 2:13:55 PM

[tup]Jack

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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