During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Here's my shot at a Venus rewrite.
- Venus actually Jupiter, the real Venus' Evil Twin) from the "What Happens In Haygas" sidestory. A former associate of Inidouh who, in the backstory, tried several times court him, but failed and now wants to see him suffer for rejecting her, planning a killing spree for years. Venus' first act is to attempt to murder Hazel by sabotaging Inidouh's water tank, and then by plunging a knife through her throat; fantasizes about murdering Twilight and her unborn foal, possibly not even in that order, simply because she's married to Inidouh's daughter; and attempts to murder Inidouh, proving any love he had for him was long dead if it ever existed. She then gives an absolutely chilling monologue about how everypony in the world exists only to please her, and that those who don't suffer. It was revealed
this is not the first time she's done this as a list of ponies names, including her own mother, was discovered at her mansion, the detective revealing that those who were checked off were either dead or missing while the others fled town. She does this all with a calm voice and a serene, soothing smile on her face.
edited 8th Aug '14 12:09:30 PM by randomtroper89
@ ACW, those are good write ups, one little correction for vulture 2099, Vulture and Spidey were not at the Alchamax building when Vulture tells Spidey the building is rigged to exploded, Vulture planted the bombs at Alchemex before attacking Spidey and his friends, they were in another section of the city when Vulture tells him this information. So its not really a Taking You with Me situation, Vulture is safe and sound while the building is rigged to explode. For all of Vulture's anti corporate rhetoric, he seems to have no desire to put his own neck at risk.
@Klavice: I saw that review yesterday. Pretty sure that was played for Black Comedy
edited 8th Aug '14 12:16:53 PM by TVRulezAgain
That's a ridiculous reason to cut someone as it comes to Light, in my eyes. I can't see any reason he doesn't belong here, and "he wouldn't be a CM if the events of the story hadn't happened and he didn't lose all redeeming qualities, even though the events did happen and he did lose all redeeming qualities" strikes me as an awful precedent completely out of line with our criteria.
Ultron...I doubt he'll qualify in the film. He seems pretty much "following my programming in a very dark way"
Yeah, it seems closer to the version of Ultron seen in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon where the intention is "I'm following my programming to save humanity, but to do that I need to wipe most of it out and rule the rest while taking their freedoms"
Comic Ultron is a self aware and sentient lifeform on its own that's just pure evil.
I can just imagine it now.
Alexander Pierce: We're trying to remodel Hydra's image from this crazy evil group into one that believes in order and-
Strucker: NEIN! Purge the untermenschen! Grind the world beneath our boots! suffocate the dissenters' cries with an iron fist!
Pierce: And we're attempting to present a more-
Strucker: KRIEG! All those who resist will die! Fly the Swastika flag! The Reich will be reborn and last a glorious ten thousand years! HEIL HYDRA!
edited 8th Aug '14 12:35:29 PM by Lightysnake
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Vulture discovered that Spidey was Miguel O'Hara and O'Hara was running Alchemax at the time (it's a bit of long story as to how that happened,) Miguel was trying to make Alchemax a more responsible company. So Vulture wanted to blow it up to get revenge on Spidey and he always hated Alchemax (he felt Alchemax's flying cars denied him the freedom to soar through the skies.)
edited 8th Aug '14 7:45:07 PM by TheOverlord
So Copy Rezo from Slayers is listed, but I saw this on the character page:
- My God, What Have I Done?: In the anime his death scene is treated as such a moment, when he seems to understand and regret the death and destruction he's caused, and asks only to be buried beneath Flagoon.
I'll say
to Lord Cotys, as well as Literature!Red Grant and Rosa Klebb.
@ Hodor: Do you know anything about the James Bond Scorpius villain by any chance?
There are two general questions that I wanted to ask here:
First, are "averted" examples instant cuts like ZCEs, or do they need consulting here? As in, a YMMV page with a character that simply says "they did a lot of bad things, but don't qualify/don't fit". One of the below examples falls under that, but I thought I'd bring it up either way.
Second, what's the general rule on Roleplay examples? I'm aware that there's a rule in place that player-dependent actions can't qualify a "character" as a Complete Monster. I've seen several examples (WALLE Forum Roleplay among them) that would disqualify under that rule, since it's basically an online role someone is playing.
Square Root of Minus Garfield
- Complete Monster: Invoked in #1544
, though the author later acknowledged that Jon doesn't even come close to qualifying.
Cut with extreme prejudice. It's a Black Comedy and a non-example.
The Immortal Rules
- Complete Monster: Jackal...oh God, Jackal. He sent his bandit army after Jebediah's small group—-which included elderly and children—-again and again, slowly whittling them down due to stress and fear. All of this so that he can captured Jebediah himself who is the grandson of one of the scientists who accidently created the rabids. All so that Jackal can find a cure. This almost paints him as a Well-Intentioned Extremist except that his reason for wanting to find a cure is so that he can create an army of vampires out of his bandit horde, and use it to "rule the world for all time". His first actions after capturing Jeb's group is to feed Darren to a group of rabids while the men and women of his gang cheer.. And had Jeb not broken down and agreed to help him, he would have done this to the children!
- His backstory makes his actions even more heinous. He was turned into a vampire under similar circumstances as Allison by Kanin; his family had been slaughtered by bandits and he was dying as well. Now as the leader of a bandit army of his own, he's undoubtedly ordered and even committed atricites just as bad or worse than the criminals that destroyed his human life.
- Sarren is arguably even more of a Complete Monster. While his desire for Revenge against Kanin and Malachai Crosse is certainly understandable after what they did to him, his torture of Kanin's spawn and murder of the families of every single scientist who worked on the Red Lung cure is particularly vicious Disproportionate Retribution. He sets up shop in New Covington in the second book, using it as testing grounds for a new Red Lung virus. Upon finding that Eden has a cure for Red Lung, he tortures Zeke to the point where he begs for a Mercy Kill to find out where Eden is, and kills him immediately afterward. When Allison, Kanin, and Jackal begin hunting him down, he kills absolutely every person he finds on the way, women and children included, in order to force them off his trail. He also turned Zeke after killing him, brainwashing him into having a similar personality to himself, and leaves him in Old Chicago to kill Allison, solely because he knows it will cause her pain. The methods he used to "train" Zeke are particularly sickening, and include starving him and locking him in a barn with women and kids, with predictable results. When Zeke recovers from his brainwashing, he has serious emotional issues, which Sarren exploits by flaying some random people and leaving them in a semi trailer for him to find, simply to mess with him. Upon arriving in Eden, he unleashes a barge full of rabids on the island, forcing a total evacuation that killed hundreds of people. And why is he doing all this? He's going to use a modified Red Lung virus to wipe out both humans and vampires, and he wants to destroy the cure. His reasons for emotionally torturing his enemies, however, seems to boil down to simple cruelty.
Cut Jackal for a sympathetic backstory. Keep Sarren.
Viandas
- Complete Monster: quite a plethora, including the paedophilic general who tried to molest Johnson, and was inferred to have molested Neira. He bit it after turning into a Hell Hound and being blown to bits by Demon-Johnson's Demon's Cannon.
- Zachaia Viandas, a Maid of Lawrence, was once a one appearance character who voices contempt of Darric's homosexuality. Her expanded, Complete Monster role is more or less given to a Dragon Lady from Qing Gong. I recently merged them, resulting in this bitch. She brutally kills Darric, manipulates Lawrence, becomes a demon in exchange for power, but her personality remains unchanged because she killed her twin sister Lisbeth Viandas, and put her heart in Lisbeth's body temporarily via magic. Even Wolfang hates her. Her planned demise at the end is very cathartic already.
- The Wailing Troope: a bunch of mercenaries employed by Matthew, one of the eldest of the princes. Why are they called the wailing troop? they keep their previous victims with them nailed to planks and force them to wail at the top of their lungs or have another nail impaled in their arm or leg. They have such sterling members as:
- The Chopper: narmy name huh? What sets him apart? He has discovered a magic that lets him keep someone alive after chopping someone in half, and uses it all the time just to lengthen the torture. He also mentions his pay includes little girls.
- Langley Clanch, the deputy to their leader, Maldred Karne. He got the job by ripping out the throat of the previous Complete Monster to hold the job right in front of everyone else. He continues holding it by skinning all his victims and making clothes from their skin. He keeps a skinless female sex slave, and likes making her molest his younger victims before killing said victims.
- Maldred Karne himself, a cannibal half demon who has Body Horror as a power. He only wears cloaks made from the skin of the faces of Lagley Clanch's victims. He enjoys messing with your head before killing you, taking the forms of your loved ones and having them say that they all hate you.
- Even their serving boys are pure evil, Zachaia's Start of Darkness involved being raped by some of them.
Okay, several things. I count no less than 7 Complete Monsters in this troper fic, two of which are groups. In fact, this page in general needs some cleanup (which has a lot of This Troper, among other things) and the troper probably messaged about the criteria for this trope. S/he's already added two different characters on Turning Colors by bypassing the thread. Second, this is a work in progress, so I'd be inclined to cut if only on the "uncompleted arc" rule. Third, with five candidates I have to question if anyone qualifies due to the darkness of the setting.
Twilight Pretty Cure
- Complete Monster: The "evil woman" that the fairies keep talking about. She's said to be a very mentally unhinged woman who abused Zenjin his entire life, which explains many of his homicidal tendencies and his very deep seated emotional issues. Said evil woman turns out to be Mana Katsunuma, a morbidly obese, overly superstitious, mentally unhinged woman who hired someone to kidnap a baby. Two years later, she took the baby back from said person she hired, and subjected him to eight whole years of horrific abuse because she needed someone to blame for her daughter's death. Said daughter died in childbirth, and the baby died with her, so Mana took someone else's baby so she could blame it for her daughter's death and use him as an outlet for her deep seated anger—a random baby from out of nowhere. Not only that, Mana even admits that she took great pleasure from abusing the child, degrading him, and dehumanizing him. Someone wanna punch her or what?
Cut for genuinely caring about the child she lost.
To the Bitter End
- Complete Monster: Maelstrom, unlike the rest of the Council of Six, wants Morganem to build his empire for the sole purpose of using mortals for his own glory and purposes, and shows no interest in the well-being of his comparatively short-lived subjects.
Cut for redeeming traits.
- Unholy Matrimony: Maelstrom and Kathryn Urdanna both seem genuinely in love. Any harm that befalls Kathryn at the Companions' hands drives Maelstrom into a fit of berserker rage. And Kathryn's final thoughts before her death are of Maelstrom.
edited 8th Aug '14 6:52:42 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"I'm not familiar with the work in question (it's another Young Adult novel; not my forte), but compared to Sarren, Jackal's Freudian Excuse seems to hold up. It states his whole family was slaughtered by evil vampires. He became an evil vampire who slaughters families; there's a clear line from his backstory to his actions that Sarren doesn't have, who just wants revenge on two people and continues killing everyone after he already gets it. Even without that Sarren probably outshines Jackal in villainy due to being a genocidal lunatic who just goes for "kill 'em all!" as well.
edited 8th Aug '14 1:58:47 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"@ Lightysnake on previous page
OT, but I've been thinking of the possibility of having Zemo (Jr.) show up along with some other villain who is non-Aryan (i.e. Songbird, whose Jewish or the new Beetle, whose Black and Latina) and him preaching an egalitarian version of Nazism (you know what I mean) and wanting HYDRA to stand for people of all races and creeds and not liking people bringing up that his father was an actual Nazi.
edited 8th Aug '14 2:12:11 PM by Hodor
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wikiI found an example from the fanfic Friendship is Showtime.
Complete Monster: Sora/Gremlin, arguably even more than in canon Wizard.
Now I don't know anything about Wizard, but I'm pretty sure just because someone qualifies in one universe, does not automatically mean they qualify in another. Was Sora/Gremlin even discussed? I don't remember that character ever being discussed.
So I just looked up Kamen Rider Wizard on the main site and from the looks of it, he qualifies in his universe anyway. The problem? We don't know if he qualifies in this fic. It's kind of like people assuming Kefka or Frollo are Complete Monsters in Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts. I think we voted to cut Frollo from Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance, but if we didn't, yeah he's not heinous enough. I don't think anyone who is a complete monster in their original work is one in an alternate universe, especially in the case of Kingdom Hearts which glosses over their more heinous deeds.
Also Captain Braveheart is still on the YMMV page for Frigid Winds. Didn't we vote to cut him and his superior?
edited 8th Aug '14 3:38:49 PM by Klavice

Keep Eppaljeck for sure. I watched those videos and holy shit, those were the most disturbing Garry's Mod videos I have ever seen.
POH Twilight has a well intentioned goal in mind, so I think she should be cut, despite being more of a Knight Templar than a true Well-Intentioned Extremist. Although she's more similar to Light Yagami as I've said before though. And if I remember correctly, the only reason he was cut was because of his redeeming qualities after misplacing the Death Note.
And to be honest, I legitimately didn't know how Creepypasta examples were handled. I wanted to add Sonic from Sonic.EXE until I read that he was possessed by a demon.
I've got a possible example from the Nostalgia Critic of all things. Has everyone here seen his Aloce in Wonderland review? Well in it, his portrayal of Alice is a disturbingly realistic rendition of a serial killer who murdered everyone in Wonderland and tried to kill the Critic. It's been a while since I've seen this review so my information may not be as accurate as I would like it, but regardless I think she should be considered.