During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Victor, Cesspool, Carl and Paul.
to Monica
Hey guys, so It looks like Valdo didn’t make the cut. Well can’t say that I didn’t try but moving I got another candidate from another work and since its now been two week since it aired time for me to discuss it. The work is called To Your Eternity so lets talk about it.
What’s The Work?
To Your Eternity is a Japanese manga series that was adapted into an anime series that aired in 2021. The story follows an immortal being named Fushi who takes on multiple forms, including that of an abandoned white-haired village boy and his white wolf. Fushi would go on a journey where it would learn what it is to be truly human. Among the humans that Fushi has met, none are arguably as vile as this woman, Hayase.
Who Is She? What Has She Done?
Hayase was an official of the Yanome government official of Yanome who would sacrifice children from the neighboring country Ninannah to the bear God, Oniguma, on an annual basis on the pretense that its a ritual that would bring good fortune to Ninannah when in truth it is to manipulate the inhabitants to become dependent of Yanome so that Hayase can get complete mental control over them and be their de facto tyrant
Hayase has performed these false rituals for many years leading to the deaths of numerous children with Hayase now setting her eyes on March hoping to feed her to Oniguma and continue her control over March’s people. However March is saved by Parona and Fushi’s efforts which the latter defeats Oniguma much to Hayase’s dismay where she captures Fushi, Parona, and March threatening to kill the latter should Fushi not come with her.
Upon arriving in Yanome along with old woman Pioran, Hayase would drug the four and put them in her prison where she would subject Parona and March to slave labor forcing the latter to tend to Oniguma while gleefully saying that she doesn’t care if Oniguma awakens and eats March.
However Fushi, Pioran, Parona, and March are able to escape Hayase’s prison, resulting, in Hayase pursuing the four in hopes of killing them. Hayase would shoot an arrow at March killing the little girl, where Fushi would transform into the Oniguma and attack Hayase defeating her and greatly disfiguring her.
Fushi, Parona, and Pioran make it to Ninannah, Fushi and Pioran part ways with Parona to travel the world only for one day Hayase returns to Ninannah where she kidnaps Parona and tortures Parona, peels her face off, and before killing her by decapitating her head.
Fushi would encounter Hayase five years later in Jananda island where she has Tonari lure Fushi to the island and have him participate in the fighting tournament. Hayase would enter the fighting tournament to have Fushi killing and slaughter all of her opponent before fighting Fushi and defeating him, while gleefully admitting to have killing Parona in a slow and horrific manner.
Hayase would then become the de facto tyrant of Jananda Island while declaring Tonari a figurehead leader forcing responsibility onto a teenage girl hoping that she’ll get assassinated by the people, while Hayase would form a Cult on Jananda Island called the Guardians on the pretense to build paradise in Jananda when it truth she just wants to use it to control everyone in Janada while keeping Fushi imprisoned in the island so that he can be her Sex Slave for eternity.
Keeping Fushi imprisoned in her room as her Sex Slave, Hayase attempts to rape him while he’s unconscious only to be interrupted by Tonari and her friends in their attempt to rescue Fushi. Hayase then orders her soldiers to kill Tonari and her friends, only for Fushi to stop her by threatening her life, while offering Hayase to do whatever she wants to Fushi if she lets Tonari, her friends, and the children Tonari selected to leave the island.
Much to Hayase’s frustration, she complies to Fushi’s demands and seemingly allows Tonari and company leave the island only to drug them all where she has Fushi imprisoned in a deep dark hole while ordering her soldiers to take care of Tonari, her friend and children.
However Tonari and her friends escape from Hayase’s soldiers and returns to Jananda to rescue Fushi where she also finds out that Hayase is a terrible ruler killing hundreds of people who refuse to follow her rule before piling their corpses in a pit. Unfortunately, the Nokkers uses all of those corpse as zombies using them kill everyone in Jananda, include three of Tonari’s closest friends much to Hayase’s complete apathy.
Hayase would then knock Tonari out before dangling her unconscious body into the flames willing to let Tonari be burned alive unless Fushi submits to her. However Tonari wakes up and tries to drag Hayase down with her to the flames, hoping to kill Hayase. Luckily Fushi is able to save both of them before tying Hayase to a boat and parts with Tonari before leaving Jananda.
When on the boat Hayase tries to get Fushi to submit to her once more before trying to get Fushi to kill her, so she would be able to become part of Fushi and haunt him for the rest of his life. However Fushi has enough of Hayase where he creates another boat before leaving Hayase while declaring his hatred of her and not missing her if she dies.
As Fushi leaves a Nokker shows up and attacks Hayase before fusing with her. She would then be rescued by a fisherman who nurses her back to health, only for Hayase to knock him out and drag him to his own hut where she rapes the fisherman, before presumably killing him.
Hayase would then become pregnant and give birth to a child and with the powers bestowed upon her by the Nokker, Hayase is able to pass on her obsession with Fushi onto her descendants before dying, having them relentlessly purse Fushi throughout his entire life effectively cursing Fushi.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
All that was known about Fushi was that She worked for the country of Yanome where she came up with the plan to have children from a neighboring country annually to insert her dominance on a less developed country and control its people, establishing herself as a sociopathic Control Freak who cares nothing but seeing people be dominated by her and killing those who disobey her, only bothering to let Tonari and the people Tonari selected to leave Jananda because Fushi threatened to kill her, before she has them all drugged before ordering her soldiers to take care of them all.
This part of her character of being a sadistic control freak is greatly established with her obsessive lust for Fushi. While she says to Fushi that she loves him, this “love” she claims to have is nothing more than a pervert obsession of control as she cant kill Fushi due to being an immortal being, so she’s obsessed with bring Fushi under her complete control and since Fushi can feel emotion pain, Hayase takes great joy in his suffering, whether it be her killing Fushi’s loved ones and gleefully telling him about their deaths, or attempting to rape Fushi to permanently scar Fushi.
Even Hayase getting Fushi to kill is just a final way to assert her dominance to Fushi since with every being Fushi kill he takes their form, if Fushi kills Haysse he’s forced to take Hayase thus allowing Hayase to assert her dominance over Fushi throughout his entire immortal life.
While some of Hayase’s descendants have come to truly love Fushi, it is due to getting to truly know Fushi and loving him as a person and not because Hayase passed her depraved obsession of Fushi. Also no Hayase cares nothing for her descendants beyond using them to curse Fushi, especially since she’s never seen interacting with them. So with all honesty, I don’t see anything remotely sympathetic and redeeming about this monstrous woman.
Heinousness
Currently Hayase sets the standards of To You Eternity, with her atrocities consisting of, having children be devoured by a bear god, killing an innocent girl herself, torturing her friend to death before cutting her face off and beheading her, slaughtering countless people in Jananda whether it be in the tournament or those reeling against her, trying to make The Protagonist her Sex Slave, trying to burn his friend alive in front of him, and her last act of villainy being to rape a fisherman who had just saved her.
Other foes that Fushi has faced are the Nokkers, however they are treated at a force of nature that operates on Blue-and-Orange Morality in that they want to kill people so that they would end up going to paradise and aren’t as needlessly cruel nor horrific as Hayase. Hayase on the other has no well-intentions whatsoever, she’s just a depraved control freak to take sadistic joy dominating others and killing the weak, and throws hissy fits when she cant do either, as case in point with Fushi, so yeah she definitely stands out.
Final Verdict
I will leave it up for you guys.
Edited by G-Editor on Nov 3rd 2021 at 12:19:00 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffRegarding Monica, I have basically the same opinion as Snoke (and I'm more than interested in talking about it in PMs), I feel like there's some aspects of her character that I'm just not understanding regarding her decision to leave at the end but I digress.
Sure to the Atom Bomb Thieves and I'm still reading Hayase.
Hayase
First for Kira Buckland? I guess.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Mir: I guess that makes G's effortpost a Troper Work EP.
~Tropers/ACW: I can't wait for your City Warriors effortposts. Or are you saving them for your birthday?
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 7:19:16 AM
Yes to Paul, Karl, and Hayase.
ACW: Batman Film Series: The Joker is a thing exists again. And apparently so does Star Wars – Wilhuff Tarkin.
Edited by Bullman on Nov 3rd 2021 at 6:56:38 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadYes to Snail’s duo and Hayase.
Re: Monaca and whatever people wanna say they’re “uncomfortable” about it. I’m sick of having to restate the same arguments about her. She was discussed and deemed a non-keeper… later on she got an EP and went up. I argued it and she was cut… she was brought up again and deemed to not keep twice… I got asked to link a million posts so someone could look through all the arguments. Now she’s being brought up again and we’re largely reaching the same consensus. If there are a couple outliers that’s fine but I’m pretty sick of having to defend my counterarguments and hearing about her again once every couple months particularly with “She was cut for invalid reasons” and “Hey everyone, not to derail the thread but I’m not sure about the reasoning she was cut on. I don’t want to discuss it here but I’m going to take the time to broadcast it even while acknowledging that many of them make sense.” I’m sick of it and hearing her name is starting to piss me off.
Edited by 43110 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 1:30:15 PM
I said that just to Offer anyone who was interested in talking about what I felt on the subject, as I would rather do that then cause another debate on her here.
Here's this, and thanks Star for the help again
*''Literature/RWBYRomanHoliday'': Paul Parrot is the psychopathic leader of the Parrot and Mouse Syndicate, having killed his uncle to take it over. For years he would have his enemies taken to his basement and EatenAlive by his captured 'Capivara Grimm', having there it recorded with cameras as [[{{Sadist}} he enjoyed watching his victims die]]. Admitting to Roman Torchwick that he enjoys his war with Lil Miss Malachite as it reminded him of the 'good old days', he then tries to have Roman and [[WouldHurtAChild two children]] fed to his beast.
Bow to the PrototypeIt’s like the third time she’s been brought up without new information because someone disagrees. I’m biased but tired of talking to her, whether or not that’s people saying I used “invalid” reasoning or pausing the thread to tell people to PM them on a contentious topic we’ve discussed to death. Do whatever we need so she’ll stop being debated on the same points we have four times now.
Snoke: A few tweak suggestions.
- RWBY: Roman Holiday: Paul Parrot is the psychopathic leader of the Parrot and Mouse Syndicate, having killed his uncle to take it over. For years he would have his enemies taken to his basement and eaten alive by his captured 'Capivara Grimm', recording with cameras as he enjoyed watching his victims die. Admitting to Roman Torchwick that he enjoys his war with Lil Miss Malachite as it reminded him of the 'good old days', he then tries to have Roman and two children fed to his beast.
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Fair point, 43. Reverting to a yes.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 10:32:31 AM
My first NA entry:
Not a Complete Monster:
- Danganronpa: Monaca Towa (Insufficiently Heinous given her resources compared to Junko Enoshima and Ted Chikatillo. Additionally obsessed with Junko to the point of sincere worship.)
It's not your fault certain others are acting in questionable faith at best.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 10:55:27 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Paul, Karl, and Hayase.
And 43, I do want to apologize for being the one to bring her back- if I didn’t EP her, she probably would have been forgotten, but it’s because of my writeup that others noticed her and got mad when she was cut. In short, it’s at least partially my fault.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.Don't apologize, you did a good faith EP. It's not your fault if someone wants to take points you made and keep repeating them hoping for a different result just like it's not mine that so much of the thread's against her for reasoning I brought up. We had a good discussion N and you don't have to feel guilty because people can't let go.
I'll let the thread help you out with the NA listing and deciding if it's necessary there Sky, like I said I can stay objective for discussing her but the particulars of crafting her line for the "We couldn't stop talking about this list" isn't something I consider myself able to be level-headed enough about to assist with.
Edited by 43110 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 2:51:08 PM
Here, just to make it read a little better:
- Danganronpa: Monaca Towa (Is not only insufficiently heinous compared to Junko Enoshima, but is shown to genuinely worship her.)
Fixed, thanks
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 11:01:08 AM

Ok, it's been a while, but there's another old EC story on my mind that again deals with Nuclear warfare and the kind of people who want to exploit it's power. And while this duo isn't as obviously horrific, their actions would have a deadly, wide-scale impact.
This is Weird Fantasy # 15's story, "Atom Bomb Thief!" published July 1950.
Paul Arnold and Karl
Who Are They
The year is 1946. Paul Arnold(and that name is quite apt) works in a government lab in Oakridge, Tennessee. From what we can see, Paul is well liked by his coworkers, but he has a dark secret that he confides with Karl, who he meets in secret after a day's work.
Y'see, Paul and Karl have been smuggling data from the lab to complete the isotope "U-235", the formula for the Atom Bomb. The two plan to auction off the formula to foreign agents seeking the power of the bomb. As Paul claims, enemy governments would pay a million for the secret of this weapon. Karl also sneers that with the recent Atom bomb tests in the pacific, they'd be more anxious than ever to one-up the U.S.
The greedy duo has already contacted several agents from different nations and are scheduled to meet them at a point in the Pacific to begin the million dollar sale of the blueprints. They soon board a small private plane with the isotope in a briefcase, headed over the Pacific Ocean to their rendezvous point. Midflight, Paul asks Karl what he plans to do with his share, to which Karl responds by cocking a gun and replying there's not going to be a share.
Before Karl can fire, Paul lunges and the shots hit the (autopiloted) plane's control panel. The plane dives into the ocean, but the thieves jump and Paul carrying the briefcase containing the plans, takes the one raft. His treacherous partner begs Paul to save him as he's about to drown with a broken leg, but the bastard laughs, declaring he'll be the only one with a fortune now. As Karl desperately tries to grab the raft, Arnold shoots at him, and Karl is dragged under by a passing shark, cursing Paul to his watery grave.
Paul is slightly disturbed by his accomplice's demise but nonetheless he's happy he'll be the only one getting rich from betraying his country and causing the potential deaths of millions. The raft floats for several days until it comes ashore on a tropical island. Exhausted, hungry, but proud to be alive and still possessing the bomb plans, Paul Arnold laughs triumphantly that he'll survive to make his blood money.
The island seems deserted, except for some animals in pens, and several pieces of recording equipment. Paul looks through the stolen notes and it hits him with the force of the weapon he planned to profit from: today is July 25, 1946, and this island is Bikini Atoll. Before he can even finish exclaiming that, there's a brilliant flash, sending Paul Arnold and his immoral dreams up in a giant mushroom cloud.
Heinousness
For all intent and purpose, these guys were planning to sell a Weapon of Mass Destruction to paranoid governments during a very tense time in world history. Hiroshima and Nagasaki had experienced the horrific fire of the atom bomb not long ago, and it's likely Japan wanted revenge on the U.S. You don't just sell Nuclear weapons and not expect them to be used for incalculable death and devastation. What's more is they were selling the atom bomb formula to countries who were wary of the threat America posed and could potentially launch a counter strike. We don't meet any of these "customers" but it's obvious why they wanted the atom bomb's power.
Paul and Karl don't give a shit, and even joke a few times about how clueless their government is to not suspect them. They have no compunctions betraying the other so they won't have to share the profit. Karl betrays Paul first, but Paul leaving Karl to drown and die when the plane crashes indicates there's no real friendship between them. Granted he does shudder a bit seeing the shark eat Karl, but he's the one who left him to die, and neither spare a thought that their greed could potentially initiate Nuclear War.
Verdict
I'd say these two are monstrous enough by scale alone.
All witches, all skeletons, all jack O Lanterns, gather round your TV set, put on your masks, and watch...watch the magic pumpkin, Watch...