During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Cesspool, damn not one but two from the infamously cheesy cartoon, I am very shocked.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Headman (not the oddest name here, but it's still a little strange) and Cesspool.
Also, hello again Mona, My Greatest Failure. I'll just abstain.
At any rate, I'm reserving Annventure Nihilism, a Fan Remake of Annventure 3. It's still undergoing development and may have a candidate in the future, and since I'm the only one who really follows the Yoobiiverse (at least I think I am), I doubt anyone will have a problem with it. I'm also reserving Bubbaruka! and will discuss it when the Playable Epilogue is finally released (which will be soon).
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.Sure to Cesspool
The recent RWBY stuff reminded me, I only got one vote for this quote on darkness before, to ask about it again.
"Look how they run!" The god of darkness laughed. "Look how they die." Troubled, the god of light did what he could to repair the damage and rebuild the lost lives, but each time he did, the God of Darkness invented some new catastrophe to destroy them-and worse, make them suffer as they died. All while his Dark nightmare beasts multiplied and spread throughout the world
Bow to the PrototypeYes to Cesspool, but a much, much weaker one than the druggie guy. I'm giving the latter points because he was in an explicit Very Special Episode compared to this guy. Cesspool keeps, but only because his goal is "destroy the world" instead of "rule it"—beyond that, he's the same hammy caricature every one of the show's other villains are and the show is still struggling under Never Say "Die". That it's more blatant than, say, My Little Pony os the difference.
TBH, it's his insistence that "I wanna make everyone as ugly as me!" compared to the idea that he just wants to kill everybody that's making me hesitate. The medium is seriously undercutting his potential as an Omnicidal Maniac; as is, I'm getting a guy with nasty, environmentally-affective evil but a guy nevertheless choking on the Never Say "Die" standard of censorship.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 3rd 2021 at 2:10:36 AM
Big ol' No to Monaca for a variety of reasons, and I certainly don't like the idea that she was cut for "poor reasoning" either, it was all totally on the up-and-up.
@Scraggle: oh yeah, Cesspool's only just making it by but I do think it's enough, his bragging is "twist and warp the world to be like me", but it's also made clear that he's intending to destroy all food in the world, and unlike, say, MLP which would likely end the detail there, the show does take the time to showcase barren wastelands, polluted cities and have several characters say he's destroying the world and "everyone" with his insane scheme. If it was anything other than straight up said "He's gonna destroy the world and turn it into a toxic wasteland nightmare where air is barely breathable and food is gone for all" (which, considering the style of the episode, has plenty of talk about countries starving), he definitely wouldn't pass muster, but ehh for an 80s cartoon it does take the steps to demonstrate that the world would be decimated so I can let it slide.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yeah, I think this guy is quite literally the boundary for what we allow in terms of Never Say "Die", for future reference. I'm fine letting him go up considering how much is implicit, but it needs to be emphasised that with kids' cartoons—especially one like the 80s' G.I. Joe that are as heavily censored as you can get for Western Animation—that much isn't even sufficiently implied. Shows need to be treating these actions as well beyond the norm for their medium. It's why I'm continually baffled Sugar Bowl candidates are even theoretically able to qualify.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 3rd 2021 at 2:26:30 AM
Interestingly enough, even though the show itself is obviously censored for kids, G.I. Joe was often quick to say "death" and even had an entire episode where Cobra Commander promises "sacrifices of people" to an Eldritch Abomination lmao but I completely agree on all fronts that this is the kind of extra "oomph" we'd want from shows like this, if Cesspool was just out to ransom food (like Cobra), that's generic cartoon villainy of the time, but the episode goes out of its way to display "Cobra wants to rule the world, and is obviously shocked and freaked out when Cesspool is out for destruction."
Edited by Ravok on Nov 3rd 2021 at 1:33:00 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I am looking forward to ~Tropers/miraculous next Night Rebel candidate, which should be at some point today.
Just to give the other problem I think Monaca runs into... Junko, as Scraggle pointed out, is worse in every way imaginable: she has a litany of personal crimes, caused Ultimate Despair and turned the world into the resulting hellhole which she ensures stays until her death. Monaca's bad but at the lower ring we've got Ted who's a lone wolf serial killer with a fucking seven figure bodycount and our 'nasty niche' keeper who infects her patients with parasites that gruesomely murder them... the standard is absurd and I'm quite inclined to heavily scrutinize anyone who cracks up to Junko level resources.
Okay, so, last night, after devoting time to my writing projects and doing catch-up here on anything I missed, my Internet connection chose the very second I clicked POST, of all times, to go off and it all got lost.
So I'll try to catch up with it all, so I can get on with my life.
for the hotel trio, Manaka, Shibayama, Clements, Toynbee, the Aztec God, Gaul (tentative), Zofloya, Freddy Krueger, August, Freddy Krueger (again), Dr. Zed, Carl, Canton, Dragon, Stu (tentative), the Prophet, Avery, Slavi, Tokimassa, Dandridge, Hardestadt, Sawbones, Jekyll/Hyde, Freddy Krueger (yet again), Blackstone, Thanos, Dracula, Damien, Dracula (again), Feely, Xor (tentative), Dracula (yet again), Boone, Alvin, Michael Myers, Billy Lee, the Joker, Karas, Slag, Jan, Jefferson, Parrot, Zed and Maynard, Dakuryon, Tretiakov, Victor, the Headman, and Cesspool.
for Verstael, Kaneshiro, the Old Monk (tentative), Obruchev, the Baroness and Wayne Gary Wayne (tentative).
Cut Nithriel.
Btw ACW idk if you wanna wait since the namespace and title have to change but for Legend of the Galactic Heroes, the Empire & the Alliance have character pages now.
I've been slightly uncomfortable with some of the initial reasons she got cut looking into it(You can just DM me there, don't wanna clog the thread) But the Heinousness stuff sounds like it's another good reason she's off, Little thing? I've been streaming the games with my friend recently, Genocide Jack / Syo killed tons of people, enough to earn the name,Before The apocalypse, with Scissors(And it ain't offscreen, we see pictures of people she killed and corpses Hung up whilst studying her and her MO) the Standard is hilariously jacked.
Bow to the Prototype
