During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I dunno, that almost sounds like something that a Han Solo-like scoundrel character might say.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again.
Complete Monster entries should not be complete summaries of the work.
Complete Monster entries should not be complete summaries of the work.
COMPLETE MONSTER ENTRIES SHOULD NOT BE COMPLETE SUMMARIES OF THE WORK.
Anyway, a condensed Aunt Ruth.
The Girl Next Door: Aunt Ruth Chandler takes child abuse to horrifying new levels. Ruth believes that all women are whores, and as such should be treated like animals. When her nieces Susan and Meg move in with her after the deaths of their parents, she subjects Meg to an escalating series of atrocities that include tying her to a post and ordering her sons and some of the neighborhood children to rape her, mutilating her with a blowtorch, and forcibly removing her clitoris. She also threatens to kill them if one of the other children tries to report any of this to the police.
edited 6th Aug '14 8:17:40 PM by KyleJacobs
@Camberf
True, but the fact that it's on the CM subpage will likely dispel those notions. That's something I think we should keep in mind with all potential quotes actually—the fact that it is posted on the CM page is going to make the reader assume the worst possible interpretation.
Let's face it—even a You Monster! quote that spells out how awful the character is in paragraph length detail could be taken the wrong way if we posted it on say, the Black Comedy page. Since we're not going to do that—we're going to put it on the CM page—it's not really a concern.
Ambar, you watch Elementary, right? Someone removed Moriarty from the YMMV page with this note:
I lied
edited 7th Aug '14 8:03:43 AM by ACW
Put it back up. "The Diabolical Kind" showed that Moriarty might—the operative word being might—care about her daughter. Her entire attitude though, screams "how dare you do this to me!" It was agreed to wait until the end of the season to talk about her again; the season is over but the discussion never happened. Frankly I can't imagine she's not going to appear next season and that when she does we'll get confirmation one way or another. Regardless, put the entry back up for now.
Probably to Film under Monster. F to O. Also, I didn't read the book; I only watched the film adaptation. However, she pretty much does the same things in the film adaptation. What's different from the film adaption, however, is that, in the book, Ruth was a single woman who was also an alcoholic. She was also mentally unstable by the time that her nieces arrived to her house. However, they do not have these plot points in the film adaptation.
edited 7th Aug '14 12:43:51 PM by AustinDR
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Marlo was willing to let Chris take the rap for all the murders Chris committed on Marlo's orders, I think Marlo enjoyed Chris' company and saw Chris as a useful ally, but there is no evidence that Marlo truly cared about Chris.
Also here is a write up for Vulture 2099:
- Vulture 2099 is one of the vilest of villains Spider-Man had to face in the Darker and Edgier 2099 era. After saving Spider-Man from members of the Private Eye, Vulture offers Spider-Man membership in his gang, the Freakers. However Spider-Man soon discovers the Vulture's secret, he is a cannibal. Vulture killed the Private Eye officers chasing Spider-Man and cooked them up for dinner. Disgusted, Spider-Man refuses to join the Vulture's gang and Vulture attacks him. While Spider-Man is fighting Vulture, Spider-Man discovers Vulture's Meat Lokcer, containing several corpses on meat hooks that Vulture intended to eat later. After his initial defeat Vulture later returned and convinced a group of Thorites (a group that worships Thor) to have a Spiderite (a group that worships Spider-Man) burned alive. In his last appearance, Vulture discovers that Spider-Man is Miguel O'Hare and attempts to murder one of his friends. After Spider-Man foils Vulture, he sets off several bombs at the Alchemax building, intending to destroy it and does not caring how many civilians are in the building.
Sorry this took so long, I was out of town for a couple of days.
Does anyone else have opinions on John Herod?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1139#28465
edited 7th Aug '14 2:35:48 PM by TheOverlord
@ ACW, Vulture doesn't have the same resources as Herod, Herod is one of the most powerful corporate overlords in the 2099, he has access all sorts of fantastic technology and has vast resources. Vulture is a low level gang leader/predator, he doesn't have as high a body count as Herod, because Herod has far more resources. I think Vulture's wiliness to commit murder in rather gruesome ways makes him stand out. I think his body count is high enough given his resources, he murdered 4 Private Eye officers, there were at least 4 corpses in his meat locker, he had another man burned alive, he blew up the Alchemax building, Spidey evacuated most of the people there, but still he attempted to kill a lot of people with that action. Add all that up and Vulture comes across as one the most vile street level villains Spidey has fought.
I do think John Herod's actions make any other corporate boss in the 2099 era ineligible. Most of them were happy to slowly ruin America to make a profit, but most them balked at Herod's plan to strip mine the planet and leave it an empty husk.
edited 7th Aug '14 3:40:14 PM by TheOverlord
oh, I've got a quote...from Highlander the TV series. from the Nazi Ernst Daimler:
"I have killed thousands. Old men and children. Mothers with babies in their arms." When the Doctor warns his intended victim Daimler can't kill them on Holy Ground? "Are you willing to bet your life on that...priest?"
So I've got a question about Tamaki from Deadman Wonderland. I saw this under Well-Intentioned Extremist:
- Tamaki, at least to himself; he justifies being a Manipulative Bastard on the grounds that he's looking to defeat the Red Man and avenge the people who died in the earthquake.
Now I don't know if this is misuse of WIE, but is it true that wants to avenge those people?
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I think the only thing is, Marvel 2099 really is a Crapsack World, so it does run on Black-and-Gray Morality.
I just started to get to the end of Punisher 2099 and man he becomes a fascist near the end. Doom puts him in charge of Shield and he seems to become a Knight Templar, he wants to scan people's minds to see if they will commit crimes and lowered the age of legal capable to 7 years old, which means anyone over 7 would be tried as an adult for a crime, not a child. He essentially became a Villain Protagonist and the staff under him seem to question his sanity. I don't know if that ruins the heinous rating, I still think Herod and Vulture are worse.
edited 7th Aug '14 6:57:36 PM by TheOverlord
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Misuse. Dude's basically a manchild whose only motivation for going against the Red Man is to live out his fantasy of being the video game "hero" that kills the bad guy. He's not really motivated to avenge anyone, nor does he care to maintain any other characteristics of a hero (e.g. altruism) beyond killing the villain for the sake of his own ego.
edited 7th Aug '14 7:15:06 PM by AquaRegia
I'm tempted to want to remove Lord Djibril (is that he's name?) the Complete Monster example from Destiny, mainly for failing the heinous standard set by Azrael and Gihren. Most of what he does is no different than what Patrick Zala does. And if he fails the heinous standard, I don't see how Djibril can meet the standard either. The worse thing he does is the Extended thing, but I doubt that's enough to make him meet the standard.
Also anyone opposed to cutting Twilight Sparkle from Pages of Harmony for being a Well-Intentioned Extremist? I've read the tropes on the page and nothing on that page has convinced me that she's anything but an extremely insane WIE. Moral Agency might also be an issue. Unless someone can give a reasonable case for why we should keep her, I say we cut her.
edited 7th Aug '14 7:20:52 PM by Klavice
I assumed that she was a Knight Templar. And seriously, I'm getting real tired of these motherf**kin' ponies.
edited 7th Aug '14 7:52:53 PM by AustinDR
