During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yeah, I was posting that half asleep and it took a while to realize that.
The better way of putting my argument is that the Saachez quote illustrates the trope concept most closely (openly bragging about being a bad person), Gihren is also close (although Hitler analogies are fairly frequent) but the Azrael one is far off (killing enemies is fairly normal behaviour for any side of a conflict).
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanAli al-Saachez is a generic villain quote. You can use it for Card-Carrying Villain and lose nothing. the Gihren one strikes me as more unique for this
Okay, since Aunt Ruth has been approved, I wrote a writeup for her.
- The Girl Next Door: Aunt Ruth Chandler takes child abuse to horrifyingly new levels. Ruth is known for being a misogynistic woman who believed that all women were prostitutes, and that they deserved to be treated as animals. Out of the two girls, Meg was her favorite victim. She also appointed her own children as well as several of the neighborhood's children into abusing the defenseless girl. When David, the film's protagonist, first arrived to her house, Ruth tried to corrupt him as well, and she also threatened to kill the two girls if he as much as uttered a word to the police about what she was doing to the two girls. The worst thing that Ruth had ever done to Meg was binding and gagging her to a cellar in the basement, and also allowing several of the children to have their way with her. When David tried to escape the house, Ruth ordered her children into tying up the young boy so that he wouldn't tell any of the authorities about what she was doing to her nieces. David could only sit there on the floor as he watched helplessly at the sight of Chandler mutilating her own niece with a blowtorch. She also performed a clitorectomy on the young girl and stated that it meant that a man would never love her and that she'll never get married. David woke up the next day and discovered, to his horror, that Chandler had molested Meg to the point of making her bleed. Despite all of his efforts to save her, Meg ultimately succumbed to her wounds. Sadistic, vile, and repulsive, Ruth is ultimately humanity at its worst.
edited 6th Aug '14 8:16:47 PM by AustinDR
A misogynistic woman? Why not off herself then? A Boomerang Bigot Hyporcrite. Anyway, is there ANY way to cut that down? Over 400 words. That's usually Joker-Palpatine-Red Skull length there.
edited 6th Aug '14 3:35:39 PM by ACW
@Septimus Heap
The key part for me of the Azrael quote is the "misunderstandings" part. Even leaving aside the context of the show (where he's advocating genocide as a response to political differences), what he's still saying is that "if you and somebody else have a communication failure, kill them" which strikes me as fairly monstrous. The Ali Al-Saachez and Gihren Zabi quotes may be better ones, but I don't think the Azrael one is especially generic, or easy to misconstrue as being about fighting either.
Regardless, votes seem to be going in favour of Gihren's quote. Given that he's the franchise's original CM maybe I shouldn't be surprised by that.
edited 6th Aug '14 4:42:22 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Speaking of Gihren, for those wondering how Nazi-esque he got, here's a picture
◊. I'd suggest it as a page image, but it only says "Nazi" not necessarily CM.
@Austin
Cut the gravedancing for starters. We don't need it. At the moment the entry reads like a plot summary. Her "treating the girls unfairly" can also go—keep the actual abuse itself, not just statements to that effect.
edited 6th Aug '14 4:45:14 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Gihren's a political leader, not a soldier, so no shot of him would work without context. He gives the orders for various horrible acts (which include, but are not limited to, colony gassings, nuclear warfare, the franchise's first Colony Drop, and the use of a Wave-Motion Gun to assassinate his father. By the time he's done half of humanity is dead and he's not done yet.). We'd probably need an image of one of the more frontline bad guys if we want a picture for that subpage.
EDIT: A pity I can't find a shot of Azrael's Villainous Breakdown. There's probably an image somewhere in that episode long nightmare that would work, but no one's bothered putting them up online.
EDIT: There's always this
◊ semi-infamous picture of Yazan, I suppose. Though even then, it's the text, not the actual image that sells the evil, so I myself probably couldn't support putting it up.
edited 6th Aug '14 4:52:46 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Here's a possible quote for the Complete Monster page:
"You have your flimsy excuses; finding Freebo, getting your money. But you know he's dead. You know there's no money. So really you're just... a killer. A monster. The stuff of nightmares."
Dexter, to George King aka "The Skinner"
edited 6th Aug '14 5:50:15 PM by Camberf
I've also been thinking of adding this quote:
"Not feeling, never satisfied, doesn't know if he's doing the right thing or the wrong thing, but above all, doesn't care."
The Nostalgia Critic describing Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men, Top 11 Scariest Performances
edited 6th Aug '14 6:27:41 PM by TVRulezAgain
Regarding page quotes again, if we want one for the Redwall subpage, this one from Vilu Daskar seems appropriate: "I do my best to be the worst."

It's not "weird"; these quotes touch more on an aspect of fighting than one of Complete Monster, relative to the Saachez one anyhow. Hence why I prefer the Saachez quote; it gives me a somewhat closer idea.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman