TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28626: Aug 6th 2014 at 10:20:09 AM

The Giselle fight's still going over in Bleach. Mayuri actually seemed worse this week. Giselle claims not to be a sadist, while Mayuri reveals he's always wanted to experiment on one of his own colleagues.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#28627: Aug 6th 2014 at 10:22:57 AM

Mayuri is the Token Evil Teammate (sort of) who was discussed thousands of pages ago, yeah?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#28629: Aug 6th 2014 at 10:46:55 AM

Re: Aunt Ruth: I'll agree with Austin's assessment on this. I don't think "doesn't abuse her sons" is a redeeming trait as opposed to "wouldn't abuse her sons" when she's never shown displaying any affection for them either. I'm still leaning to keep.

Re: Count Yu Almeida: Unless someone here is familiar with the fic in question, I say cut it and provide a link directing them to the thread.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#28630: Aug 6th 2014 at 10:48:12 AM

Though I gotta say, I really don't take Giselle at her word given she flat out said she got aroused at her own comrade begging and pleading with Giselle not to murder her and zombify the corpse

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#28632: Aug 6th 2014 at 10:50:45 AM

I don't know another definition I could have used.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#28633: Aug 6th 2014 at 10:51:48 AM

[up]That's...twisted. So a LITERAL sadist.


Bertrand's character page
  • Affably Evil: He freely gives money to different charities and plants trees. At heart he's horrible man, but got plenty of charisma.

edited 6th Aug '14 11:05:52 AM by ACW

sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#28634: Aug 6th 2014 at 11:12:12 AM

[tup] to Aunt Ruth.

I was browsing again through the Kamen Rider pages and I found this poor listing of entries on Agito's YMMV:

  • Complete Monster: Anguis Femineus, the Gorgon Lord. She actually takes sadistic pleasure in her murders, laughing sinisterly as she stalks her victims. She even murders Sakiko Mikumo, a normal human, out of spite, causing the Overlord to force her to kill herself as punishment.
    • A number of the Lords - despite supposedly being Angels and even making hand-signs for permission to sin - actually display sadistic pleasure in killing their victims. E.g. Corvus Croccio, Apis Mellitus, and the aforementioned Anguis Femineus.

After Jaraji's entry is posted, I'm going to investigate Anguis Femineus since Kamen Rider Gaim still has 7-9 weeks left in its tank. We can probably burn the latter subentry though.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#28635: Aug 6th 2014 at 11:42:04 AM

  • Ravenous: Colonel Ives is a cannibalistic soldier who became obsessed with the Wendigo myth after suffering from hunger. Ives took to cannibalism, which resulted in him becoming stronger than other human beings. When he and a traveling party became trapped in the mountains during a blizzard, Ives slaughtered and ate everyone else before assuming the identity of “Reverend Colqhoun” and luring more soldiers to the spot before butchering them, sadistically chasing one terrified man down before gutting him with a knife. When he returns to the fort, having killed everyone who could recognize him except for Captain John Boyd, Ives begins a killing spree and forces the hero Boyd to become addicted to human meat as well. Revealing his intent to create a cannibal ruling class with himself at the top as a messianic figure, Ives is a representation of the predatory evils of Manifest Destiny and the savagery in human nature.
  • Guardians of the Galaxy: Ronan the Accuser is a genocidal Kree terrorist and renegade wholly devoted to the destruction of the planet of Xandar. Disgusted by his people signing a peace treaty, Ronan is introduced to the audience by confronting a captive member of Xandar's Nova Corps and crushing the helpless man's skull with his hammer. Beginning the film as a henchman of the Mad Titan Thanos, Ronan seeks to gather an item for Thanos if Thanos will destroy Xandar for him. Under Thanos, Ronan has committed multiple murders, including the deaths of Drax the Destroyer's wife and children. Ronan pursues the film's motley band of heroes to the space prison The Kyln, and orders a full massacre of every prisoner to leave no witnesses. When he realizes the power of the Infinity Stone he has been sent to retrieve for Thanos, Ronan double crosses Thanos and vows to kill him after he's finished with Xandar. Assaulting Xandar, Ronan even orders his own men to become suicide bombers by flying their ships into Xandar, injuring and killing numerous civilians. After mocking Drax about finally remembering murdering his family, Ronan declares Xandar "guilty" by his psychotic philosophy and attempts to purge it of all life. Brutal, violent, relentless and unforgiving, Ronan stands as an example of rage, fanaticism, unchecked hatred and utter cruelty.

Bertrand rewrite if he does count:
  • inFAMOUS 2: Joseph Bertrand III turns ordinary human beings into the Corrupted, performs cruel experiments on Kuo, uses the Power Transfer Device to turn Vermaak 88 into Forced Conduits in a process that will eventually drive them insane, was responsible for the sacrificial death of Nix's mother and several hundred others in his attempt to activate his own Conduit powers, and tops it off by ordering the execution of any Conduits or potential Conduits in the starting move towards total genocide. In addition to all that, he also planned on selling the Vermaak as personal soldiers to major powers around the world. This man nearly started an arms race which might have sparked another World War, tugging the strings the whole time. He never fully seems to realize how terrible a monster he's become. His Karmic Transformation is completely lost on him, despite the fact that the only power he unlocked through the murder of hundreds of innocents being the transformation into a ravenous monster; the only conclusion he draws from this is that if he has become a monster through the activation of his Conduit powers, then all Conduits are monsters, and must be exterminated.

edited 6th Aug '14 11:54:17 AM by ACW

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#28637: Aug 6th 2014 at 11:59:31 AM

BTW, Complete Monster Live Action TV still has some entries.

Also, who's pictured at Dragon Ball and Bleach? Super Buu and Granz?

edited 6th Aug '14 12:14:49 PM by ACW

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#28638: Aug 6th 2014 at 12:34:56 PM

Regarding quotes, if we need one for the Gundam subpage, there are three that spring to mind:

Gihren Zabi: "I'll show you how a man who follows in Hitler's footsteps can fight."

Muruta Azrael: "Misunderstandings create enemies and when you have enemies, you shoot them."

Ali Al-Saachez: "I'm the worst kind of person there is."

The last one's the obvious one, but I thought I'd post the other two as well. I can think of a few more, but none of them are quite as effective without the context as those three (Djibril's "And now Gilbert Durandal, I shall play a Requiem for you and all your kind!" only really works if you know that a) Requiem is a Kill Sat and b) he's talking about a Final Solution).

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#28639: Aug 6th 2014 at 12:38:22 PM

Last one is best of these - the other two are about fighters. A quote by a character lampshading the monsteritude of the characters in question also works.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#28640: Aug 6th 2014 at 12:38:41 PM

I like Zabi's quote the most.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#28642: Aug 6th 2014 at 1:27:08 PM

I'm edging towards Zabi because it's a little more exemplary whereas Al-Saachez's requires you to actually know who he is.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#28643: Aug 6th 2014 at 1:58:27 PM

I have to say, it's not often you see characters who admit in-universe to being inspired by Hitler.

Though I think I still like the Al-Saachez quote better.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#28644: Aug 6th 2014 at 1:58:40 PM

Okay, so Guardians of the Galaxy is coming out in Australia today, so I should get a chance to see it in two days. Until then please keep spoilers tagged (and for some time after that too).

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#28645: Aug 6th 2014 at 2:20:07 PM

@Septimus Heap

Actually the first two are from a mass murdering dictator and a xenophobic political lobbyist; the last one's from a mercenary. I concur his quote is probably the best one, but I'm not quite sure what you're saying.

[up][up]Given that Gihren's a fascist/royalist dictator who runs a nation modeled in equal parts on Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan his admiration of Hitler is not that surprising.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#28646: Aug 6th 2014 at 2:22:49 PM

The quotes are not talking about a Complete Monster; they are talking about someone who fights. I was just pointing out that the quotes were emphasizing the wrong thing.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#28647: Aug 6th 2014 at 2:23:55 PM

This is where not knowing the source material cna hinder one's understanding. No, Septimus, that's not what they're talking about

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#28649: Aug 6th 2014 at 2:27:23 PM

Actually, I know the source material sufficiently well to know that they are Complete Monsters. However, quotes should not rely on knowing the source material, similar to why we don't like Just a Face and a Caption images. Besides, a quote that is about someone fighting isn't a good quote for a Complete Monster page.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#28650: Aug 6th 2014 at 2:35:26 PM

You're also being very weirdly literal. It's not about 'fighting' and that's pretty easy to grasp. They're quite self explanatory.


Total posts: 326,048
Top