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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#285726: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:32:27 PM

Man, this is bringing back memories of the debate we had when show!Chrystalis was mentioned. [tdown], sadly- same issue.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#285727: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:33:24 PM

[up][up][up] That's true, but my point wasn't that she had a mitigating quality. My argument was that her role in releasing the Umbrum is so tangential that it doesn't contribute to her heinousness. The most she does is taunt to the heroes "Ha Ha, you're going to die" and leave. A Kick the Dog moment for sure, but not something I would consider as making her exceptionally heinous.

Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 27th 2021 at 5:34:03 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#285728: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:36:17 PM

And "lol you're gonna die" is getting on par with Raine Herzig making top 10 anime villains for riding his bike without his helmet.

Edited by 43110 on Oct 27th 2021 at 12:38:19 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#285729: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:39:06 PM

I'm not really in agreement that, that action doesn't contribute to her heinousness but at this point, I don't have any other arguments so I will leave it to the thread to decide.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#285730: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:39:48 PM

Switching to a no to Chrysalis.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#285732: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:48:58 PM

I will give one last thing so the thread can vote on this with all the facts. The comics have already proven capable of having CM's via Cosmos. And when it comes to her actions: She drained all the cat creatures of their love leaving them emaciated, took over their land and imprisoned them so they could be used as a food source, killed one of them in front of the CMC's, told them that they had outlived their usefulness and she was NOT letting them go, started to drain Twilight's friends which was shown to be painful, planned to make Twilight drain her own friends herself, drained a bunch of ponies leaving them emaciated while destroying their villages, and abandoned her own allies while taunting them and the heroes they would all die.

I am just making sure you guys have everything to vote, at this point I doubt I will be able to change anything. Now I am going to duck out of the thread for a bit.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 27th 2021 at 5:54:52 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#285733: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:58:53 PM

Being perfectly honest I'm getting more sketched out about the other keepers from the franchise. I recall there's one from the older series that was deemed to be well vetted, another that went up despite a lot of us finding it questionable and idk if that ever got resolved and at this point I'm just hoping whoever else is listed from the comics has an actual bodycount and doesn't just inject unfun fuel into their victims so they can't experience the magic of friendship.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#285734: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:16:21 PM

Looking at Cosmos’ writeup from the same comic, I think she’s good, since it does say that the fabric of reality is in danger, and there’s several other crimes instead of non-lethally fucking someone up.

Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 27th 2021 at 6:17:42 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#285735: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:16:25 PM

Switching to a no to Chrysalis. And in hindsight maybe those other villains that we have up may need to be taken a closer look at because yeah the comic still shares a lot of the show's tone issues even if slightly more mature.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#285736: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:17:21 PM

Fine with Cosmos tbh, but yeah, no to Chrysalis.

But, Lavan I recall was more contentious. Wouldn't mind vetting that one.

Edited by AustinDR on Oct 27th 2021 at 6:18:33 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285737: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:24:55 PM

I'm tired, tuckered out from back to back to back morning shifts and midterms, so I'll just say "no" to Chrysalis.

Cosmos, as fucking insane as it is, can stay. I double checked during the EP. They break the Never Say "Die" rule as strongly as I've seen within the medium's (admittedly tight tight tight) conventions.

Lavan, IMO? Needs to go ASAP. I've never understood why he went up. You know when we voted down Sarah Ravencroft because her "destroy the world" goal was heinous on paper but generic in execution? Like, no emphasis or threat of death whatsoever because G rating and young children? That is Lavan's exact issue.

Hell, at least Sarah wilted some trees. Lavan doesn't even do that.

Edited by Scraggle on Oct 27th 2021 at 7:38:26 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#285738: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:28:15 PM

[tdown] Lavan.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#285739: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:35:58 PM

Cut Lavan.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#285740: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:49:03 PM

Cut Lavan, switching to [tdown] from abstain on chrysalis

I think the Tirek we have up can stay

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#285741: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:50:13 PM

Tirek was the vetted one I referred to but I'm totally down to blow Lavan right tf out of the sky.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#285742: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:51:16 PM

I have vague memories of Lavan being extremely contentious

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#285744: Oct 27th 2021 at 7:01:05 PM

[tup] Whateley, Evil Ash, BBM, Zaramoth and Overmage

[tdown] Chrysalis

Cut Lavan

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#285745: Oct 27th 2021 at 7:01:56 PM

By the way, Library, in your signature you have to put Pokémon in brackets (like this: {{Pokemon}}) for the link to work properly.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#285746: Oct 27th 2021 at 7:02:20 PM

I got it. (I usually remember, that'll teach me to change my icon at 10 pm)

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#285747: Oct 27th 2021 at 7:03:20 PM

[tdown] Chrysalis and Lavan

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 27th 2021 at 11:03:38 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#285748: Oct 27th 2021 at 7:09:59 PM

[tup] Whateley, Evil Ash Redux, Big Boss Man and the Dungeon Siege duo.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#285749: Oct 27th 2021 at 7:33:06 PM

Yes to Red Demon, Whateley, Evil Ash, and Big Boss Man.

Cut Lavan.

No to the MLP villain, MLP should not have many C Ms in general. Other kids franchises Masters of the Universe, TMNT, Transformers, GI Joes, etc are aimed at a older audience, have consistently nastier villains than MLP and have consistently higher stakes than MLP, it's why She-Ra 2018 has a keeper and 2020 MLP does not.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend

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