During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Just updated the Luthor EP:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=11404#comment-285092
And a yep to Luthor with everything there
I'm still waiting just a few more days on the Boss just in case the next chapter gives him a name, but for now:
- Crossover comic Past Lives: Angelus remains as creatively vile as he always is. After meeting the vampire hunter Andrew Landry and deeming him arrogant, Angelus decided to break the man in every way he could. Beginning by murdering his fellow hunters, Angelus would then spend fifteen years killing everyone the man so much as knew, including by shooting them full of arrows and presenting their decapitated heads on Andrew's front gates. When his plan began winding down, Angelus sneaks into Andrew's home and sires his wife, forcing Andrew to murder her and rendering him insane. Paying him one final visit in an asylum, Angelus reveals that he spared Andrew's son Alex in order to keep Andrew sane enough to comprehend what was done to him, alongside ensuring that Alex would grow up alone and miserable, all because Andrew once reminded him of his own father.
- Slender Man vs Siren Head:
- The Slender Man is shown here to be a horrific sadist with a love for targeting children. Over several decades, Slender Man kidnaps around a dozen children, horrifically torturing them in order to reduce them into his army of slaves. Having once again done this to Trevor before the story begins, Slender Man also lures in his sister Cassidy purely for the fun of the chase, tormenting her with a "game" of hide and seek before leaving her to be cannibalized by his slaves. Luring in Sophia and Alex in much the same manner, Slender Man manages to take the time during his fight with Siren Head to rip Alex apart before sending his slaves to attack Siren Head, dismissing them as expendable. When he believes he's won the fight, he tells Sophia to run so that he can chase her, intending to continue his sadistic games forever.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 11:08:34 AM
Luthor
And honestly, regarding FS, going to have to say cut them. They're honestly not much different than my failed EP of fan pitch LOTR Prequel Movie Sauron, which did describe some scant dialogue and scenes but was more descriptive over an actual outline but was downvoted anyways.
Edited by xie323 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 8:15:51 AM
Fore Angelus, drop him in the Other Continuities section?
I know it was originally a ban evader, but does this header work?
- Slender Man vs Siren Head: In this battle between two internet horror icons, both sides of the titular Big Bad Ensemble are far from easy to root for:
So, since it looks like we're re-examining candidates from works that tell what stories could be like, where do stand on the candidates we have from Masako X - Dragon Ball What-If videos? Frieza seems to be fine since it's from a what if that got novelized into an actual fanfic, but what about Trogen?
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 11:26:46 AM
For people who aren't familiar with the What If videos, they kind of split the difference between Fanscription and Counter Monkey since it's just Masako sitting in front of the camera describing the story while occasionally reading out dialogue, but unlike counter monkey (which is almost entirely just Spoony recapping thigs from the top of his head with very rare bits of dialogue in the Thieves World video) the videos are scripted and read much more like Fanscription just without the visuals.
Edited by papyru30 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 9:44:10 AM
Lex and Helen
So, No Time to Die...
The main antagonist, Safin, does not count. Safin's clearly not a nice guy. Among other things, he wants to spread a virus that would probably kill millions of people. But he has a genuinely good reason for being an asshole. Safin's family was literally massacred by a terrorist organization when Safin was a young child. Quite a traumatizing event, one could figure. This organization was... surprise, SPECTRE
Now, we all know who leads SPECTRE. Ernst Stavro Blofeld, the archenemy of James Bond. Franz Oberhauser. Blofeld is not a nice guy. And he's even less of a nice guy in this movie.
Blofeld orders Safin's family to be slaughtered, plans to take over the world using nanobots as biological weapons, and assaults Bond while destroying his relationship with Madeleine Swann by tricking him into thinking that she had betrayed him, just to piss him off.
So, multiply this with what Blofield already has done in Spectre, divide it by mitigating factors (like 0.5), and you've got yourself quite a solid example of a CM that is not a totally bland character!
I would make an EP, if it wasn't for the fact that there's nothing to discuss. There's nothing redeeming about Blofeld here, he's just this evil, grinning, punchable, villains-villain.
Lesson: you know you might need to work on your personality when a guy who wants to commit murder in the millions finds you distasteful
Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:31:10 PM
What about Safin's scientist Number Two Obruchev. I heard he was the guy who actually made the virus for him. And is a huge prick.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 23rd 2021 at 9:32:57 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@mir That's all he's really got going for him though. Same with Ash who also kills Felix.
Cyclops worked for SPECTRE and then when Safin kills all of SPECTRE through Obruchev switching the virus sample originally meant to only target Bond, Cyclops switches sides so willy-nilly. Even with that, he still doesn't do enough though. So yeah, Blofeld also specifically tries to kill Bond with the nanobots when this happens.
His final fate? Safin gives Madeleine a virus disguised as a perfume designed to kill Blofeld, Madeleine is too afraid to see him and chickens out, Bond when touching her accidentally transfers some onto his hand and then when he tries to strangle Blofeld but backs off before actually strangling him to death? He accidentally infects Blofeld and kills him.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
So yeah, Blofeld/Oberhauser definitely still keeps! Shall we expand his entry?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Oct 23rd 2021 at 9:45:53 AM
Luthor, Helen.
Keep Fanscription and Trogen, cut Thales, Mike, Bingo.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine

Yes to Helen.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread