During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Woagh
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Jevil and the King.
While I do agree that the story is mostly just "Jevil kills people for shits and giggles", and that's why I originally hesitated a bit with proposing him, the story isn't completely plotless. It also takes a small jump into Jevil's worldview, viewing the heroes less as people and more as the roles they're supposed to have (Kris is a puppet, Susie undergoes Character Development, Ralsei is an anagram for Asriel), as well as his connections to Gaster (or "the good doctor", as the fic calls him). He knows the Knight and Queen aren't actual people yet, so he doesn't worry about them or anything, explaining his "I CAN DO ANYTHING!" worldview. He also knows that what he does doesn't matter as Kris will just reload, but does it anyway because he finds it fun. Is it much? No, but it's just slightly enough to classify it as more than just shock value, in my opinion at least.
Maybe we are all sock puppets of this Utter Koala. /s
Any who, since Lothar seems to have been a bust, here’s the write up for Rupert Thornely.
- Red Alert 3: Uprising’s Soviet Campaign: Rupert Thornely is the President of the European Union. In the aftermath of WW3, Rupert has Russia occupied and firmly supports FutureTech’s clandestine activities, such as kidnapping scientists and experimenting on abducted Soviet citizens, coming to the defense of the one such facility when the Soviet resistance attacks it. As his end goal, Rupert planned on using the Sigma Harmonizer to freeze time and destroy the Soviet resistance once and for all.
Still amused that a British man became the President of the EU. That’s sillier than Space Tim Curry.
Also, nah to Jevil.
Edited by Vyn on Oct 22nd 2021 at 3:19:24 PM
He never sleeps. He says he will never die.
Goku Black
Would anyone count in the original Command & Conquer?
I know Kaine is an Anti-Villain of sorts in later games but what about any others?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Thanks Sum I really appreciate that: So with that said here's the Supreme Deity's write-up:
- The Seven Deadly Sins: The Supreme Deity is the ruler of the Goddess Clan who helped orchestrate the Holy War while planing to make the conflict last forever. When The Supreme Deity learns that her daughter Elizabeth is trying to establish peace with the Demon Clan along with being in a romance with the demon Meliodas, The Supreme Deity curses her lover with immortality while having the aforementioned Demon King curse her daughter with resurrection causing the two eternal suffering, while also having her archangels slaughter innocent members of the Demon Clan to ensure that peace will never to ensured. When the Holy War ended 3000 years later, The Supreme Deity brainwashes the second Fairy King, the giant craftsman, their people, and even members of their own clan forcing them to attack and kill countless innocent, before appearing them herself to destroy her all life in Britannia before creating a new Holy War, uncaring if she kills off her own thralls and daughter. Despite trying to justify herself, Meliodas exposes her on being be nothing more than a petty Control Freak who merely views The Holy War as a game.
I'd say this goes after the Demon king
Edited by G-Editor on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:40:02 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don’t know, I haven’t played it but I could check a playthrough.
Edited by Vyn on Oct 22nd 2021 at 3:26:52 PM
He never sleeps. He says he will never die.
The Draftsman of Doom
Switching to no on Lothar, given diffused heinousness. It was worth a shot, even if it wasn't approved.
Rawr.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Uprising after Curry's guy?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
lol, Lore.
Alright, got another...
What's the work?
Certain Dark Things is a novel by Silvia Moreno-Garcia...a vampire novel, no less. See, vampires are known. They're a fact of life...but Mexico City is closed to them...there are many kinds of vampires, from all cultures...and our heroine Atl is one whose lineage runs to the time of the Aztecs. Atl is on the run, her vampire breed being more bird than bat, known as Tlahuihppochtli, and she's fleeing a group of European types, Necros, who butchered her family. With her beloved dog, Atl runs into a young man named Domingo one night and is desperate and hungry enough to offer money for his blood...the two end up in a strange bond...
And someone is hunting Atl...Nick Godoy.
Who is Nick Godoy?
The scion of the vampire Godoy family, almost mafia-esque and a vicious, hedonistic killer... Nicolas, "Nick" Godoy seeks to rise higher in the family. He's one of several viewpoints, besides Domingo and Atl, and Ana Aguirre, a detective who's supposedly a vampire killer...and Nick haaaates Atl. A lot. He arrives with his "Renfield," family servant Rodrigo, to look after him. Rodrigo tries to temper and cure Nick's savagery with...little success.
Almost immediately, Nick finds a woman who sort of looks like Atl, tortures and butchers her, taking his time to devour her blood until she expires....now, Nick took part in wiping out Atl's family to seize control of Northern Mexico,..Nick proceeds to hunt Atl, killing multiple people in "Vampire Murders", and eventually tracks down Ana whom he forces to work for him via his blood and with threats that if she refuses, he'll have her daughter beaten, killed and/or mutilated....Nick intends to find Atl and torture her to death for kicks.
One of the allies of our heroes is an energy vampire who gets the better of and drains Rodrigo. How does Nick reward his help?
Rodrigo moaned. Nick raised his foot and brought it crashing down into Rodrigo’s head. The skull cracked like a porcelain teacup, bits of bone spilling and jumping through the air.
Capturing Domingo, Nick tortures him to draw Atl out, deciding to torture and murder both when Domingo knifes him, Nick has ana kill everyone in the vicinity, but when he and Atl fight, their ally, Bernardino, assists her...grabbing Nick from behind and draining him of energy so that Nick withers to nothing.
But knowing the Godoys won't stop, and how Domingo might die following her, Atl parts from him, leaving him money...but with the two always connected, as Atl retreats into the rainforest.
Mitigating issues?
No. Nick is a violent, spoiled, sadistic psychopath who likes hurting and killing people which he does. A lot. He's a serial killing mafioso brat who just wants to inherit his family and murder people. He's absolutely a nightmare and the worst vampire we see in the novel, bar none.
No good qualities to him, either. Nick is just...out for himself, and to make Atl pay for spiting and hurting him when they slaughtered her family.
Conclusion?
Yes to Nick.
@ACW: Yes. On the subject of which, I feel he could use a slight expansion to cover his actions in the Allied campaign, namely trying to destroy the United States with bomb-dropping Kirovs attacking their cities from Cuba. But that’s about it.
And also, just because I wanna talk about him and I’m sure some are curious, President Robert Ackerman - played by J. K. Simmons himself in all his glory - probably doesn’t keep. He turns on the Allies and goes rogue thanks to the temporary alliance with the Soviets against the Empire and tries to destroy Moscow with a amount Rushmore superlaser that also kills Allied forces, he comes across as rather well-intentioned and frankly doesn’t reach the heinous standard. Course you should vote for him - you’ll live!
Aye to Nick the vampire.
Edited by Vyn on Oct 22nd 2021 at 3:45:13 PM
He never sleeps. He says he will never die.
Lizzid people!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Godoy
Having read that too. Also lol Roderigo. He was sent to take care of him but even he couldn't control what a unhinged brat he is.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:50:08 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Wild Child
Nick.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Nick.
Rawr.
Nick.
Okay, while I'm working through my Halloween checklist now that I did a re-read of the story.
Written by our very one SumDumNerd, Slender Man vs Siren Head is a crossover fic that pits the two entities against eachother. Focusing on a teenage girl looking for her missing brother with her friends, and a soldier who was tormented by one of these monsters, the two respective chases end up overlapping as the entities turn their murderous attention on eachother.
Star and I reserved this fic months back, but I wanted to wait until October before we got to it. Since I brought up a number of Slenderman incarnations in the past (to the point that I got a little tired of it), I decided to do a change of pace and bring up Siren Head.
Who is Siren Head ? What does it do ?
Siren Head is a monstrous, predatory being, taking the form of a towering, mummified, humanoid body with a pair of sirens for it's "head", infamous for killing, and abducting people, playing various words and noises over it's speakers - especially recording the screams of it's victims. According to the original creator, Trevor Henderson, Siren Head is the expression of some higher being, and within this story, is portrayed as a spiteful and malicious brute.
Earlier in the story, Siren Head lurks in a forested area near a military base, where it forms a fixation on a soldier named Trevor. Over the course of a few weeks, Siren Head would play a noise to get Trevor's attention, that somehow only Trevor catches onto. When Trevor tries to bring it up to anyone, everyone would dismiss him and some started to think he was going crazy. Having enough, Trevor arms himself and sneaks off base to confront whatever's making the noise, eventually finding Siren Head itself. Trevor attempts to shoot it, causing the creature to give chase, eventually playing the recordings of men, women, children and even animals that Siren Head has taken and killed over the years. In the process, Siren Head nearly deafens Trevor, who manages to outrun him.
By the time Trevor returns to base, he sees that Siren Head reached there first, and proceeded to slaughter and mutilate everyone there, before burning the base to the ground. Rather than kill Trevor, it leaves him to deal with the fallout, playing a mocking fire alarm as Trevor swears revenge. Trevor attempts to reveal the truth about what happened, but his higher ups don't believe him, and he is blamed for the massacre, forcing him to go on the run. Deciding he's got nothing left to lose, Trevor goes on the run in hopes of eventually killing Siren Head.
As Trevor's revenge quest is going on, a group of friends, Cassidy, Alex, and Sophia seek out Cassidy's missing brother Victor (who was taken by the Slenderman). Trevor happens upon the kids right as Slenderman attacks them, and Siren Head catches up from chasing Trevor. As Sophia's friends are killed, she and Trevor try to escape the chaos when the two titular entities come face (less) to face (less); Siren and Slendy quickly decide to direct their bloodlust towards eachother, and the titular fight begins.
Siren Head, for his part spends the lot of the fight trying his damndest to rip Slenderman apart, and slaughtering Slenderman's brainwashed underlings for annoying it throughout their fight. Eventually, Siren Head mutilates Slenderman to such a degree that Slendy unleashes a giant One-Winged Angel form. They eventually catch up to Trevor and Sophia, during their own escape tract, whereupon Sirenhead grabs Trevor and uses him as a living club to beat Slenderman, with both entities tearing Trevor in half. Sophia sets up an explosion, spreading a forest fire which traps her with the entities. When Siren Head is seemingly overpowered, it lunges at Slenderman as the two begin to burn, pinning Slendy down so that they'd die together.
The story ends with an exhausted and injured Sophia escaping the woods by sunrise, turning around to see something following her, presumably either Slendy or Siren Head preparing to kill her.
Mitigating Qualities ?
So, in contrast to Slenderman in this story, Siren Head isn't very talkative, only communicating through the siren noises it makes, and audio recordings of it's victims. The only actual word is "speaks" is a shriek of "DEATH!!!" when both he and Slendy are undergoing a Villainous Breakdown.
Now Siren Head isn't rich on characterization in this story, though it displays a spiteful and petty personality, especially when it comes to tormenting Trevor. It's thought process begins and ends with "I want everyone and everything around me dead" and sees it's victims as annoyances, even when they pose no threat to it. It is more of a simple brute, as opposed to Slenderman being a Faux Affably Evil Psychotic Manchild.
Heinous wise, Siren Head is given the biggest body count in the story, and given the recordings of it's victims, has killed many more people over the years. That said, compared to Slenderman there's a quantity over quality edge to it. It doesn't have the same powers as Slenderman; no mind raping, no brainwashing numerous children into his slaves, nothing. Besides his psychologically tormenting Trevor and ruining the guy's life, Sirenhead has no extra edge to his admittedly high kill count. On top of that, none of his kills are pretty.
I'd say he keeps. By the skin of his teeth at least.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lord of Hell
Not sure of Siren Head. Doesn't seem to have enough personality.
Yes to Nick... not really feeling Siren Head. Given this was written by a thread goer I'm sure they put in enough personality for it to not just be a mindless monster but I'm not really down to give him points just because Slendy has mind rape powers he lacks... they're both eldritch monsters, they're roughly equal for resources and unless he's eclipsing the other meme lord for body count I don't think he's bad enough in the setting.
No to those two Deltarune fic things.
The Draftsman of Doom
I dunno on siren head. I mean, if was more explicitly mocking in his demeanour—like my one candidate who wrote writing mocking laughter and faces into bombs, or my other candidate who has a line where he takes pleasure in a teenage girl resisting as he kills her (and generally acts shady)—I'd need slightly less convincing.
Rawr.
Late to Raven Beak, one of the more badass gaming villains for 2021.
Honestly, while therealjackieboy was a bit suprised they got a keeper, I was not surprised that Metroid Dread would have a keeper even before I knew of Raven Beak. Metroid Dread was slated to be a conclusion of the current story arc and resolution to a LOT of plot points, it was pretty much set up to have this ultimate evil pulling the strings sort of plot making their Eviler than Thou entrance knowing how Japanese long running media and especially JRPGs are structured.
And while these sorts of plotlines are somewhat polarizing in among western audiences(due to some notoriously poorly done ones with no buildup or ones used to force a redemption arc for some problematic characters by introducing a viler puppetmaster) Japan loves these "puppetmaster" behind everything villains. So honestly, not surprised we got a keeper here.
Now this sort of character isn't necessarily a CM(ex: Rather than both of them being even bigger C Ms than our current keepers for that game, Helganquil in Tales of Arise were behind everything and are a entire race of WIEs and the Great Spirit in the same game is genuinely doing whats' needed to survive) but it is very common that the ultimate instigator of all that is wrong in a setting has the "appropriate" morality matching their reputation(which is: utterly none at all).
Edited by xie323 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 1:49:30 AM
Just finished inside job, I didn’t claim it but I wouldn’t mind a pm.
Also![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]")
on jevil and the king, I’m not sure about the substance of the story.
Edited by Mediawatcher on Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:18:30 PM