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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#284901: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:23:54 AM

Damn, there goes that, I guess we will have to get rid of Kingdom Come Lex Luthor. If possible I could check the comic out to see if he actually counts I have been interested in the comic for a while anyway.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:24:21 AM

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#284902: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:25:32 AM

Now, the other one...

What's the Work

Numbers Game is a Deltarune fanfic which revolves around Jevil escaping his prison and doing what he does best.

Who is Jevil and what has he done?

Jevil is the Villain Protagonist.

Once Kris, Susie and Ralsei (or, as Jevil calls them, "Puppet, Character Development and Anagram") enter his prison cell, Jevil fights and kills them. And then he escapes his jail cell. He then gives freedom to everyone else; He offs everyone in his path, from minor mooks to the three imprisoned Kings, to Clover (on their own birthday, no less), to Rouxls, to Lancer, to the Spade King. After dropping the King to his Disney Villain Death, Jevil continues his rampage throughout the Great Board and many others, until finally facing Seam. They fight, much to Jevil's enjoyment, and the clown reveals he's aware of the fact he lives in a game. And Kris loades their file to fight Jevil again. History probably repeats.

Mitigating Factors / Freudian Excuse

Nah. His Affably Evil personality is just a mix of Faux Affably Evil and Psychopathic Manchild.

Heinous Standard

His kill count is in the dozens, which includes one child. Sure, Kris resets it all at the end of the fic, but this is Jevil we're talking about here, so he will probably win and rampage again and again, basically a "Groundhog Day" Loop.

Final Verdict

[tup] to Jevil, for me at least.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#284903: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:26:57 AM

"sock of Utter Koala"

~I am~

*Dabs*

~Not surprised~

Also, maybe whoever looks at Kingdom Come Luthor can actually cover all of his appearances, since the effortpost didn't even do that lol fail.

Abstaining on the Deltarune baddies, ultimately leaning 'No' on Lothar. Yes to Raven Beak, tho!

Edited by Ravok on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:28:16 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#284904: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:30:49 AM

[up] What are all his appearances? since I am interested in checking him out.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#284906: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:33:02 AM

When it comes to the Deltarune baddies.

[tdown] King, doesn't seem he really does enough especially different.

[tup] Jevil though as the story is also longer.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:33:11 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#284907: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:34:31 AM

Still reading the Deltarune guys - if you wanna take Luthor Ordeaux go for it, if not I'll throw it on my to-do

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#284908: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:35:07 AM

[up][up] King legit kills his own son (and Rouxls too I guess) and he apparently doesn't do enough different?

Edited by RK93 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:35:24 PM

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#284909: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:36:07 AM

Yes to Jevil and Rupert. No to Luthor and King.

Edited by YobabyColin on Oct 22nd 2021 at 2:36:44 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#284910: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:37:51 AM

What say I check on Kingdom Come's Luthor and report back soon enough?

Yea to Jevil and...no problem about Fabio! Go for whatever you like otherwise. I'm earnestly glad when we get more non-English works in here.

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:38:32 AM

CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#284911: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:42:54 AM

Well, I read the comic before. Could read again to refresh my memory and see if that iteration of Luthor is heinous enough and/or lacking in his usual redeeming qualities.

But anyone's free to look at KC!Luthor if they want to. I'm just saying I read it before.

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#284912: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:43:31 AM

That is fair still his body count is pretty low so I am not thinking he counts.

I don't really care who does it, it was just something I was interested in.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#284913: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:53:22 AM

Yeah, someone'll look...regardless, I'll have my Ira Levin film baddie up soon after another or two....and maybe a Wes Craven

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:54:04 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#284914: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:53:31 AM

"*sees sock puppet*" Fuck me.

Abstain on Frey

[tdown]King

[tup]Jevil

Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:53:53 AM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#284915: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:54:56 AM

Just a heads up, I'm giving G-Editor permission to take care of the Seven Deadly Sins stuff he did a few days ago; I can't get any free time between work and college, so I won't be able to catch up on the series for a bit.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
Pikamencer079 Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: Married to the job
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#284917: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:00:35 PM

No to the King on account of heinousness and substance.

Before I vote on Jevil, I would like more explicit comparison to the deeds of other canonical villains, taking into account heinousness and resources.

Also, maybe whoever looks at Kingdom Come Luthor can actually cover all of his appearances, since the effortpost didn't even do that lol fail.

So much for "you made a good faith effortpost, Ozzy". Fuckin' A.

[down][down][down] Please don't ignore the effortposts to make jokes, Lore.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 3:08:54 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#284918: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:04:14 PM

Well on the positive aside. At least they didn't get like a half dozen candidates up or something like last time. That would have been more painful at how much work we would have to do.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#284919: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:04:55 PM

[up][up] The only other villain that shows up in the fic is the King, and he doesn't do anything besides fight Jevil and fucking die. His genocidal intentions aren't even mentioned, and he's an absolute Big Bad Wannabe who falls victim to Eviler than Thou by Jevil. The Knight is said by the narration to "not even exist yet, just a thought, a speculation", by the virtue of the fact the world is a game in which he wasn't introduced yet; And even then, this was before his omnicidal intentions were revealed in Chapter 2.

Edited by RK93 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:05:24 PM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#284920: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:07:20 PM

[up][up]Wait until we find out Lightysnake is a sock puppet for Utter Koala.

I'm gonna no to both Deltarune fanatic guys and yes to Beak.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:13:34 PM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#284921: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:07:28 PM

Abstain on Luthor until a new EP is made, hopefully from someone actually trustworthy.

In the meantime, here are my week's write-ups.

  • Metroid Dread: Raven Beak, Arshgar Behek, is the Chozo leader of the Mawkin tribe, and the architect behind the entire franchise. Once a mighty warrior who fought alongside his Chozo brethren, Raven Beak began to desire the Metroids for their power, hoping to use them to conquer the entire galaxy. But when the Thoha tribe sealed them away with hopes to exterminate them all, Raven Beak had the entire Thoha tribe slaughtered, only sparing Quiet Robe to act as his pet scientist, which allowed the Space Pirates to gather information on them, and the X Parasites to roam free. As ruler of the planet ZDR, Raven Beak keeps Kraid imprisoned as an abused slave, and keeps his men in line by killing those who disobey him. Upon discovering his metaphorical daughter Samus Aran is near, Raven Beak lures her to ZDR with hopes of obtaining her Metroid DNA to create an army of Metroids. Having Quiet Robe killed for giving away information to Samus, Raven Beak later decides to instead create an army of Samus clones after seeing no use in her anymore.
  • V/H/S/94:
    • “Holy Hell”: Petro and Nash, two members of the SWAT team, are revealed to be involved in a snuff fetish film cult. Creating and collecting unique types of murder movies to satiate them and their followers’ twisted desires, said movies cause their followers and captives to gouge their eyeballs out. Luring their SWAT team to their base under the guise of exposing a drug ring, the two women succeed in killing their fellow SWAT members on film for their latest masterpiece.
    • “The Subject”: Dr. James Suhendra is a Mad Scientist who creates human weapons as a way to push the boundaries of the human body. Kidnapping over 99 people to be used for his experiments, Suhendra nonchalantly kills them should they fail to meet his standards, and when his latest subject regains her memories, Suhendra tries to have her killed as well. Anticipating his eventual death by the Jarkata SWAT team, Suhendra activates several booby traps and unleashes his deadly subjects to kill them all as one final farewell.

It's Spooky Month!
MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#284922: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:08:52 PM

[tup] Jevil.

Also nice, someone dabbed (even ironically) in late 2021. Note the date and time hahaha.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#284923: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:09:25 PM

I'm gonna abstain on Jevil. Not to offend, but reading through the story, length issue isn't a problem (being a 3000+ worder), so much as substance; the fic is just Jevil going on a killing spree after beating the heroes and then fighting Seam before the reset happens, with little to go with it. Pretty much the EP gives a whole summarization of the fic.

Like I'm not voting "No", but I'm just not feeling it with this one.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#284924: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:10:51 PM

If the entire fic is just the Villain Protagonist going on a killing spree, then I'm kinda inclined to say no myself

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#284925: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:11:48 PM

With Beast's input, I am not exactly comfortable with Jevil going up on account of the fact that in addition to questionable lack of substance, I am unsure how canonical the intentions, if not the actions of the other villains are.


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