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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#284226: Oct 18th 2021 at 8:35:59 PM

I am open to the idea what do you have in mind?

[tup] Michaelo

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 18th 2021 at 8:36:19 AM

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#284227: Oct 18th 2021 at 9:05:25 PM

[up]Are you talking to me? If that's the case, I was thinking on taking Sauron's information from the current article and expand how he tortures the elves, about Morgoth, mainly the same, but also would add a little mention about the fun that he felt when noticed how much his plan would be a slap to Eru, but the last could be only me.

[down]I am still thinking on Morgoth's and likely will publish it tomorrow because is late in my time zone. About Sauron something like this

  • Sauron is Morgoth's right-hand, who is left by Morgoth to take control of the torture of the elves, a work that he follows with great pleasure by repetidely whipping them until their clothes and skin where nothing but tatters, starving them, dislocating their bones and even threathening them with with rape just to mentally torment them further. Even after Morgoth's defeat, Sauron has them breed again to create the Uruk-Hai to add to his growing army.

Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Oct 18th 2021 at 11:24:11 AM

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#284228: Oct 18th 2021 at 9:10:30 PM

I was taking to you, that sounds like a good idea but I (along with I think the rest of the thread) would like to see what your idea for writeups are.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#284230: Oct 18th 2021 at 9:42:27 PM

[tup] to Michelo

Edited by Mediawatcher on Oct 18th 2021 at 9:43:45 AM

Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"The Juice is Loose."
#284231: Oct 18th 2021 at 10:24:00 PM

Yes to Michaelo

Also since I am looking into Once Upon a Time, am I the only one who finds Pan's write up lacking.

  • Malcolm, aka Peter Pan and The Pied Piper of Hamelin, is a demon who has children kidnapped and forced to become his eternal servants in Neverland. Having his shadow kill any who try to escape by removing their souls, Pan is also a hedonistic psychopath who tortures and breaks others, solely to amuse himself. Dying along with Neverland's magic, Pan plans to absorb the heart of a child, his own great-grandson, who is the truest believer in magic, making himself all-powerful and immortal, while the innocent child dies in his place. Also the Abusive Parent of Rumpelstiltskin, Pan abandoned his son for power, selfishly neglecting the responsibilities of adulthood. Killing his own supporter to complete a magical curse, Pan cares nothing for anyone but himself and tries to murder Rumpelstiltskin's family just to torment his son.

I feel like it does really convey how bad he truly is and is lacking in his actual deeds.. Anyone mind if I try to rewrite it? Or if someone else wants to go ahead?

Edited by Bullman on Oct 18th 2021 at 12:45:17 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
TheJokster22 Justice for Skywarp from Down Unda Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Justice for Skywarp
#284232: Oct 18th 2021 at 11:22:28 PM

I'm considering doing E Ps on two villains from Batman The Brave and The Bold, Owlman and Silver Cyclone, who are evil counterparts of Batman and Silver Cyclone, who both plan interdimensional conquest and both are also willing to commit omnicide as well.

Edited by TheJokster22 on Oct 18th 2021 at 11:23:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#284233: Oct 18th 2021 at 11:24:15 PM

[tup] Nazi, Osbourne, Missy, Dean, Honoria, Rob, Lopez and Michelo

[tdown] West and John

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#284234: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:10:28 AM

[tup] Dean, Honor, Rob, Lopez, Michaelo

Happy late B-day Lib!

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#284237: Oct 19th 2021 at 2:24:54 AM

[tup]Michelo.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#284238: Oct 19th 2021 at 2:57:48 AM

Yes to Michelo

@Jokester

I can see Cyclone, but I don't really remember Owlman trying to blow up worlds?

The First man
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#284239: Oct 19th 2021 at 3:30:47 AM

Uh the syndicate only wanted to do that after Batman (disguised as Owlman) told them that Earth was too dangerous to conquer.

Before that under Owlman it was just a generic take over the world scheme.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"The Juice is Loose."
#284240: Oct 19th 2021 at 5:21:19 AM

Any opinions on my above question?

Edited by Bullman on Oct 19th 2021 at 7:21:39 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#284241: Oct 19th 2021 at 5:23:13 AM

Expand away.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"The Juice is Loose."
#284242: Oct 19th 2021 at 5:52:50 AM

Okay how is this:

  • Malcolm, aka Peter Pan and The Pied Piper of Hamelin, is a demon who has children kidnapped and forced to become his eternal servants in Neverland. Having his shadow kill any who try to escape by removing their souls, Pan is also a hedonistic psychopath who tortures and breaks others, solely to amuse himself. Also the Abusive Parent of Rumpelstiltskin, Pan abandoned his son for power, selfishly neglecting the responsibilities of adulthood. In the past Pan healed Hook's brother, just to kill him; and kidnapped Wendy Darling and keeps her prisoner, forcing her brothers to work for him. Dying along with Neverland's magic, Pan plans to absorb the heart of a child, his own great-grandson, who is the truest believer in magic, making himself all-powerful and immortal, while the innocent child dies in his place. To this end Pan is the brains behind Greg and Tamara's hatred of magic, all so they will bring Henry to him, killing them once they do so. When the heroes come to save Henry, he has a bit of fun tormenting them, all the while corrupting Henry and making him believe they don't want him. Killing his own supporter to complete a magical curse and tries to murder Rumpelstiltskin's family just to torment his son. Returning in the Underworld, Pan claims to want a fresh start with Rumpelstiltskin, before revealing he really just wants to go back to the land of the living, and to this end plans to steal Zelena's heart and later tries to have Rumple steal Robin Hood's.

I think I might have made it to long.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 19th 2021 at 7:57:58 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#284243: Oct 19th 2021 at 6:00:47 AM

Yeah, that's over 250. FWIW, Jafar's under 210.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"The Juice is Loose."
#284244: Oct 19th 2021 at 6:06:31 AM

How is this:

  • Malcolm, aka Peter Pan and The Pied Piper of Hamelin, is a demon who has children kidnapped and forced to become his eternal servants in Neverland, having his shadow kill any who try to escape by removing their souls, and is the Abusive Parent of Rumpelstiltskin. In the past Pan healed Hook's brother, just to kill him; and kidnapped Wendy Darling and keeps her prisoner. Dying along with Neverland's magic, Pan plans to absorb the heart of a child, his own great-grandson, who is the truest believer in magic, making himself all-powerful and immortal, while the innocent child dies in his place. To this end Pan is the brains behind Greg and Tamara's hatred of magic, all so they will bring Henry to him, killing them once they do so. When the heroes come to save Henry, he has a bit of fun tormenting them, all the while corrupting Henry. Killing his own supporter to complete a magical curse and tries to murder Rumpelstiltskin's family just to torment his son. Returning in the Underworld, Pan claims to want a fresh start with Rumpelstiltskin, before revealing he really just wants to go back to the land of the living, and to this end plans to steal Zelena's heart and later tries to have Rumple steal Robin Hood's.

216 words and barely bigger than Jafar who he appears more than.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 19th 2021 at 8:07:15 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Vyn Since: Oct, 2021
#284245: Oct 19th 2021 at 6:17:56 AM

Hey all. Sorry I haven’t voted on those Gundam candidates, but to catch up, sure to the Get Out villains. Four in one film, damn, that’s impressive.

I got a folklore candidate later, one from the Faroe islands, but before that, I have issues with Conomor the Accursed being listed. Why?

Because his entry labels him as from the British Isle, specifically Cornwall. He’s actually from Breton folklore, which is related to Celtic mythology on account of language but is not part of the British Isles, it’s in France. Kind of a dumb mistake, and a little insulting.

Edited by Vyn on Oct 19th 2021 at 6:19:39 AM

He never sleeps. He says he will never die.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#284247: Oct 19th 2021 at 6:39:54 AM

Oh right yeah. Commor is believed to be an inspiration for Bluebeard (which is French fairy tale).

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#284248: Oct 19th 2021 at 7:13:13 AM

Alright, so remember when I covered Morgoth from the Heroes series - tries to use the Infinity Stones to wipe out the Multiverse? Well, if you can believe it, he's not the only keeper - right now, having finished all the stories that are currently out, I begin the first of four more discussions with a similarly omnicidal being, the Dread Lord himself.

Who is Dormammu? What does he do?

Dormammu is the Great Demon of the Dark Dimension who seeks to bring the entire Multiverse into his "home". In the past, Dormammu has not only attacked multiple Earths (the Dormammus seen in Doctor Strange (2016) and Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme are the same being here) only to be driven back, but he also attacked Arda, ambushing Radagast with the offer to help Dormammu destroy Arda or parish in it. When Radagast refuses, Dormammu decides to just destroy Arda, only being pushed back when the Ancient One intervenes and causes a fight that levels the East and sees Radagast driven mad.

In several stories, we find out that following his departure from Kamar-Taj at the end of the film, Karl Mordo became his most loyal disciple, recruiting people in the name of bringing him out and plunging the entire Multiverse into his dimension. Among his recruits are the Batman Who Laughs, who Dormammu recruits after he destroys his homeward and then sends to destroy other Earths so he can absorb them easier, and Carnage the symbiote, who Dormammu sends through the Multiverse in order to kill everyone he comes across and take their energy so that Dormammu can eventually consume it and become physical.

Eventually, Mordo manages to begin a ritual that the heroes think is to release him, which is what Dormammu was intending. In truth, the ritual brought forth Dark Dimension beings that were previously scattered across the Multiverse, but not Dormammu himself - however, the heroes use Mordo's machine to reverse the process and send the demons back to the Dark Dimension. This gives Dormammu enough power for him to escape the Dimension himself, making his way to Earth and quickly curb stomping the heroes himself.

Eventually, Smallville Superman and Thor pull a magical ritual to combine their Astral forms (becoming SuperThor in the process) in order to take Dormammu on physically. In the fight, among other things, Dormammu forms enough energy to destroy the Earth should it touch the ground and throws it at the duo, essentially playing a deadly game of catch with the whole world in the balance - and when he senses he may be losing, he settles for not sucking everything in by destroying the Multiverse, beginning the process to destroy everything there ever was.

While the duo are able to stop them, the ritual wears off before they can actually defeat him, and Dormammu then unleashes his forces on New York to kill the heroes once and for all. Luckily, some accidental magic mishaps from the four Hobbits, Peter Parker, and MCU Doctor Strange ends up sending them back in time to before Dormammu was released at all, and they manage to prevent him from getting out.

Since then, he's appeared in small amounts - he's one of the evil entities Doctor Doom sold his soul to and Strange later tricks him into attacking Galactus - but nothing particularly major. The author has stated that he'll come back, but there's no word on when.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

Dormammu has infinitely more personality here than he usually does. This version is not only intelligent enough to genuinely trick the heroes into letting him out, but his sadism is cranked up to downright playful levels, holding the fate of the Earth in a deadly game of catch and even calling humanity "trash" - normally I'd just chalk that up to the fact that it's a fanfic written by a Joe Schmoe not attached to the character, but Thor actually calls it out and suggests that he's learning more from humanity than he'd like. He's also much more spiteful than usual, recognizing both Doctor Stranges and Radagast years later and seeking to punish them for defying him. If the versions from the live-action and animated films have enough personality, this one has more than enough.

Is he heinous enough?

Again, the fic's heinous standard is absolutely fucking enormous. If you're not a multiversal threat, you're not worth any kind of discussion here. Dormammu absolutely is. Not only does he have two separate attacks of Earth under his belt along side trying to attack Arda (and decimating the East), he also has the Batman who Laughs destroy entire worlds so he can take them to the Dark Dimension easier (in his appearance, the BWL tries to destroy a total of seven Earths and has already destroyed much more than that) and Carnage kills millions of people in the name of bringing him out. When he comes out, he almost destroys the world himself, and when he can't suck the Multiverse into the Dark Dimension, he settles for destroying all of it instead. He and Morgoth easily keep side by side.

Final verdict?

And another yep - what about you?

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#284249: Oct 19th 2021 at 7:19:21 AM

Yes to Dormammu.

Silver Cyclone might be worth a shot, but as the guy who did Owlman for MB, I gotta say this— in my opinion, he's not bad enough. In terms of heinousness he's a standard (if effective) cartoon villain who doesn't do anything beyond the pale enough to make CM. Just my thoughts though.

ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#284250: Oct 19th 2021 at 7:28:59 AM

[tup]Dormmamu.

This is my idea about Morgoth (without the mention about the fun that he felt when noticed how much his plan would be a slap to Eru, because I didn't find any form to put it that flow ell with the rest of the sentence and I wanted to know if the rest of the thread think that worth add it), it's almost the same, the original entry was exact and really there are no many other things to say about him. .

  • Morgoth Bauglir, formerly known as Melkor, is a Vala who wanted to take over all of Middle-earth; to this end, he captures two elves, Midriel and Fingol, to corrupt them and create an army of servants. Morgoth first tortures both elves when they speak out and leaves Sauron to continue torturing them. Out of amusement, Morgoth eventually releases them both to an Elven camp, where his forces track them down, slaughter everyone in the camp, and recapture the two elves. Afterwards, both have them breed to create an army of Orcs.

Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Oct 19th 2021 at 9:32:50 AM

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine

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